Originally posted by menace71
Do we dismiss the Apostle Paul's writings or accept them as being from Jesus ? Do Paul's writings contradict anything that Jesus taught in the Gospels ? Or are they a further expansion upon what Jesus taught ? If Paul's writings contradict Jesus then we should ignore them altogether right ? ( Not that I believe that ) We either accept Paul's teachings as b ...[text shortened]... know I would fall on my face and humbly ask for God's unmerited favor to fall on me 🙂

Manny

Our righteousness is either going to be with God's grace or things we have done. I have
no doubt I'd prefer to found in Jesus Christ's grace verse my own righteousness.

Originally posted by FMF
The idea that God has revealed Himself to humanity by way of ancient Hebrew mythology strikes me as utterly preposterous (or more to the point, mundane and parochial). Maybe the "gut feeling"/intuitive/hard wiring thing is all the "revelation" that we're going to get. Other "evidence" will be weighed when it emerges. I am open minded.

So tell me why you find the idea of God being revealed through the Bible as being preposterous?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So tell me why you find the idea of God being revealed through the Bible as being preposterous?

I just don't believe it. None of its advocates or promoters make a convincing case when they make claims about supernatural things based on it ~ and when they urge me to ignore the lack of evidence to back their truth claims and to simply to have "faith" or to "choose to believe" instead. I don't believe He has revealed Himself to Jews or Muslims either for similar reasons.

Originally posted by FMF
I just don't believe it. None of its advocates or promoters make a convincing case when they make claims about supernatural things based on it ~ and when they urge me to ignore the lack of evidence to back their truth claims and to simply to have "faith" or to "choose to believe" instead. I don't believe He has revealed Himself to Jews or Muslims either for similar reasons.

If none of its advocates make a convincing case, why do you think so many people find it convincing? Are the people who do find it convincing ignorant, stupid or brainwashed in your opinion?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If none of its advocates make a convincing case, why do you think so many people find it convincing? Are the people who do find it convincing ignorant, stupid or brainwashed in your opinion?

No. I was a Christian myself for many years. And I have no regrets. Nor am i ashamed of it. I live among Christians and have done so all my life, even here in predominantly Muslim Indonesia. Many of the brightest, most positive, most vivacious people i have ever known and loved have been - and are - Christians.

Originally posted by FMF
No. I was a Christian myself for many years. And I have no regrets. Nor am i ashamed of it. I live among Christians and have done so all my life, even here in predominantly Muslim Indonesia. Many of the brightest, most positive, most vivacious people i have ever known and loved have been - and are - Christians.

Thanks for clearing that up. So if you don't mind me asking, you yourself found the things convincing in the past that you presently do not find convincing?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Thanks for clearing that up. So if you don't mind me asking, you yourself found the things convincing in the past that you presently do not find convincing?

Over a period of time - of contemplation, reflection and reappraisal - I lost my belief in the credibility of the Bible as a source and basis for the claims that Christians make about the nature God and about the identity and significance of Jesus (and his life and death).

Eventually I simply had to recognize and acknowledge this loss of faith and change of beliefs and so i stopped self-identifying as a Christian. As I'm sure you will agree, without the Bible, there can be no Christianity.

Originally posted by FMF
Over a period of time - of contemplation, reflection and reappraisal - I lost my belief in the credibility of the Bible as a source and basis for the claims that Christians make about the nature God and about the identity and significance of Jesus (and his life and death).

Eventually I simply had to recognize and acknowledge this loss of faith and change of ...[text shortened]... ing as a Christian. As I'm sure you will agree, without the Bible, there can be no Christianity.

Hold on so how exactly do you find a gut feeling to be more convincing than the Bible?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Hold on so how exactly do you find a gut feeling to be more convincing than the Bible?

I rather think that the gut feeling has always been there [I think it may be part of my hard wiring, remember i told you?] and that Christianity 'came and went' and tapped into that gut feeling for many years. The gut feeling remains intact even after my loss of Christian faith.

Originally posted by FMF
I rather think that the gut feeling has always been there [I think it may be part of my hard wiring, remember i told you?] and that Christianity 'came and went' and tapped into that gut feeling for many years. The gut feeling remains intact even after my loss of Christian faith.

Did people also challenge you about your Christian faith and because you couldn't defend it you lost faith in it or did you loose faith all on your own?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Did people also challenge you about your Christian faith and because you couldn't defend it you lost faith in it or did you loose faith all on your own?

I lost it all on my own, so to speak.

Originally posted by FMF
I lost it all on my own, so to speak.

Ok, so tell me is there anything you miss about your Christian faith? Are you happier now than when you were a Christian? Were you ever happy as a Christian?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Ok, so tell me is there anything you miss about your Christian faith? Are you happier now than when you were a Christian? Were you ever happy as a Christian?

Yes i was happy as a Christian. And yes I am still happy now. I don't miss it.

Originally posted by FMF
Yes i was happy as a Christian. And yes I am still happy now. I don't miss it.

Did you ever believe that you were saved when you were a Christian?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Did you ever believe that you were saved when you were a Christian?

I genuinely believed that i had the opportunity to be saved and that I was loved but i never told myself that it was a done deal like OSAS Christians do.