1. Subscribermoonbus
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    29 Mar '22 09:13
    @KellyJay


    No, of course it wasn't until Judaism that people noticed that men and women are different. What I'm saying is that our recent political interest in transgender people is nothing new. Only the technology is new to make surgical alterations of external characteristics. There have been people who were neither quite male nor quite female from time immemorial. Moreover, there is a solid biological basis for this. In most people, their sex organs match their chromosomes (XX or XY). However, there are so-called sex-reversed males, who look like males but have female chromosomes, and there are people with supernumerary x chromosomes. Not surprisingly, these people with mis-matched genitals and chromosomes are disproportionately highly represented among those who say that social labels which applied to them at birth (based on genitals) don't fit.


    https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/genetic-mechanisms-of-sex-determination-314/
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
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    29 Mar '22 09:40
    @moonbus said
    @KellyJay


    No, of course it wasn't until Judaism that people noticed that men and women are different. What I'm saying is that our recent political interest in transgender people is nothing new. Only the technology is new to make surgical alterations of external characteristics. There have been people who were neither quite male nor quite female from time immemorial. More ...[text shortened]... n't fit.


    https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/genetic-mechanisms-of-sex-determination-314/
    Genetic mistakes/errors typically are not what we are talking about; if they were, the topic would be purely about biology. Someone once said that if a man gets parts removed to be female, that would not make him a female, it would only make him a man with body parts removed. Definitions are a big deal; by them, we set up how we think, so our lives, homes, neighborhoods, culture, nations, worldviews are formed. If all it takes is "I want to be" to be, then all diversity is dispelled; I could want my sex and race to be something else; the line is immense, and truth would be what I want when I want it because desires change with time too.
  3. Subscribermoonbus
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    29 Mar '22 11:081 edit
    @KellyJay

    I could want my sex and race to be something else; the line is immense, and truth would be what I want when I want it because desires change with time too.

    You present a false dichotomy: either "external male organs or external female organs, that settles it and that's all there is" OR loony subjectivism whereby anyone can be anything he thinks he is just because he says so. I gave you an argument why male and female don't exhaust the field, and it's based on objectively verifiable biology. There are now and always have been other genders, which are neither quite male nor quite female, and some cultures have recognized this instinctively (without knowing the chromosomal basis for it). Our culture is grappling with it, because it has inherited a falsely constricted view of sexuality. This is not to say that anyone can be anything he wants to be simply by wanting it; that's loony subjectivism. Obviously one cannot be a different ethnicity just by wanting to. Obviously one cannot be 2 meters tall just by wanting to. Obviously one cannot be 120 years old just by wanting to. Those are straw men, we don't have rebutt such claims.
  4. Joined
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    30 Mar '22 16:02
    Last year I got a phone call from someone asking if I would answer some survey questions. I said okay, and he proceeded to ask questions. Nothing out of the ordinary until he asked "what is your gender". I said "male", and then the next question was "what gender were you assigned at birth". After a short pause I said "the same... male".

    After the survey was over I looked up the definition of "assigned", and it means what I thought it meant.
    So now I don't take phone calls from just anyone anymore. If I don't know the caller, I wait to see if it goes to voice mail.
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    30 Mar '22 16:11
    To make up such a tiny, tiny fraction of the population, transgenders sure make up a huge portion of what is called "news."
  6. Subscribermoonbus
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    30 Mar '22 18:56
    @liljo said
    To make up such a tiny, tiny fraction of the population, transgenders sure make up a huge portion of what is called "news."
    Paradigm shifts are newsworthy.
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    31 Mar '22 10:26
    @liljo said
    To make up such a tiny, tiny fraction of the population, transgenders sure make up a huge portion of what is called "news."
    It'd be nice to get past all the intolerance to a point where it's no longer "news".
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    01 Apr '22 03:13
    @suzianne said
    It'd be nice to get past all the intolerance to a point where it's no longer "news".
    Uh, what intolerance? Seriously. I don’t see any huge organized marches saying “No Transgenders!”

    Am I missing something? The LGBTQ etc. seem perfectly tolerated to me. They wanted marriage, they got it. They want adoption rights, they got them. They want tax filing status of married straights, they got it.

    Seriously-what intolerance, besides that which is maliciously and very dishonestly propagated by…certain media outlets.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    01 Apr '22 03:51
    @liljo said
    Uh, what intolerance? Seriously. I don’t see any huge organized marches saying “No Transgenders!”

    Am I missing something? The LGBTQ etc. seem perfectly tolerated to me. They wanted marriage, they got it. They want adoption rights, they got them. They want tax filing status of married straights, they got it.

    Seriously-what intolerance, besides that which is maliciously and very dishonestly propagated by…certain media outlets.
    Who are the people calling a transgender woman a "biological male", then?
  10. Joined
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    01 Apr '22 13:38
    @suzianne said
    Who are the people calling a transgender woman a "biological male", then?
    Oh the dastardly injustice of it all!

    Now we even have to wipe out terminology we don't like! Change our words, by all means, in the name of Justice!

    Maybe in about 3 million years we can just all have a Super Society where no bad words are said, everyone is equally poor, and everyone just walks around smiling at one another!

    Good grief. We are doomed. By the way, thanks for the education. I didn't even realize one of our nation's biggest injustices right now is, evidently, some huge block of people calling men who have undergone treatment to become women "biological males." What a tragedy!
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    18 May '22 22:16
    @suzianne said
    Who are the people calling a transgender woman a "biological male", then?
    If a transgender woman was female biologically, why would anyone call them
    transgender females, wouldn't we call them female?
  12. Standard memberSoothfast
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    14 Jun '22 19:27
    @kellyjay said
    I have no idea
    Bingo.
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