$2 Trillion Deficit

@AThousandYoung said
Carnegie was extremely damaging to the economy and the government had to step in and break up his business.

😂…at the….🤡

@AverageJoe1 said
Sorry, with all the fluff, all I hear you saying is that we could reduce the trillions if we get money from the billionaires. No I think we should leave them alone, I think they are about to invent something called AI. It will change the world. I hope you’re investing and you will get Rich too like they are. And AI, created by billionaires, will benefit our country greatl ...[text shortened]... he time.
Doesn’t this make more sense than soaking the Rich, who will just leave? Wake up, man.

All they need to do is live within their means.

You see the irony that Republican governance can't do that.

The Big Beautiful Bill caused this deficit. It added $350 billion in brand new spending programs, and added wealthy tax cuts that were irresponsible given the deficit situation.

It'd be a different story if anything DOGE did was successful. Maybe Elon Musk would have been successful and actually cut spending, but he didn't.

Trumps government wants massive increases to government spending AND massive decreases in the amount of taxes rich people pay. It makes sense to him, since his friends are rich and they want safety and security of the government. But it shouldn't make sense to you or anyone else. Someone has to pay the tax bill. Get your house in order, Joe.

@no1marauder said
I'll go further; treating the sale of stock better than work makes no economic sense whatsoever.

Economists don't consider stock trades "Investment":

"By investment, economists mean the production of goods that will be used to produce other goods." https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Investment.html

When there is economic investment, something is added to the pr ...[text shortened]... ock and the wealthiest 10% around 90%. https://inequality.org/article/stock-ownership-concentration/

OMG

Ha ha, where is my glass of Jack Daniel . You conflate two very different things: taxation of labor and taxation of capital formation.

The plumber’s $500 is payment for immediate labor consumption. A capital gain is not simply a paycheck ….it’s the result of risking already taxed savings over time in productive enterprises that create businesses, factories, technology, jobs, and economic growth.

Analogy time!!!
If I earn $100,000, pay income tax on it, then invest what’s left into a company instead of spending it, that capital is put at risk. I can lose it. If the investment succeeds years later, the gain reflects deferred consumption, risk, inflation, and long-term capital allocation — not merely ‘another paycheck.’

That’s why nearly every advanced economy taxes long-term investment differently from wages.
Jesus Marauder. Suzianne has been lurking here!!

And your claim that the benefits to workers are ‘trivial’ ignores reality, like that businesses expand using investmey, for god sake, and all that that entails. millions of ordinary Americans own stocks through 401(k)s and IRAs,


You also keep treating wealth as if it just sits in a vault. In reality, invested wealth finances the economy itself.

You may dislike inequality, but that’s different from claiming there’s no economic distinction between earned wages and long-term capital investment. There absolutely is.!!!!!!! Help me Rhonda.

Could you at least accept that there is inequality, and that we have to live with it. Because the only answer would be if all of the money in the United States was spread out evenly, and we live with the consequence.?!?!?!?

RHONDA!!!!!!!! Dam, i’m only at my best usually in the morning, but this takes the cake!

(I hope my use of the word risk did not throw you off . .Libs do not contemplate or get the concept of that pesky risk factor. Risk has resulted in extreme production, which has created a hell of a lot of jobs. But let’s not get into an area with which you are unfamiliar..

@AThousandYoung said
The Haitians might have something to say about that attempted takeover.

https://www.npr.org/2025/11/23/nx-s1-5618242/texas-haiti-gonave-island-plot

So what

@AThousandYoung said
Carnegie was extremely damaging to the economy and the government had to step in and break up his business.

You and your friends are wild men

@wildgrass said

All they need to do is live within their means.

You see the irony that Republican governance can't do that.

The Big Beautiful Bill caused this deficit. It added $350 billion in brand new spending programs, and added wealthy tax cuts that were irresponsible given the deficit situation.

It'd be a different story if anything DOGE did was successful. Maybe ...[text shortened]... n't make sense to you or anyone else. Someone has to pay the tax bill. Get your house in order, Joe.

Do you not think that Trump is trying to get the United States in order. Do you just totally discount what he means when he says make America great again? You don’t believe him? That’s all he thinks about. He does not think about getting rich because he is rich. He doesn’t have that many friends, so why would you think he’s trying to wait the wealthier wealthy?

TDS definitely will ruin a man. Don’t get ruined.

@AverageJoe1 said
OMG

Ha ha, where is my glass of Jack Daniel . You conflate two very different things: taxation of labor and taxation of capital formation.

The plumber’s $500 is payment for immediate labor consumption. A capital gain is not simply a paycheck ….it’s the result of risking already taxed savings over time in productive enterprises that create businesses, factories, tec ...[text shortened]... has created a hell of a lot of jobs. But let’s not get into an area with which you are unfamiliar..

The plumber could lose his wallet on the way home and there goes his $500. So what; the bottom line is that both are getting $500 with the difference one person had to actually work for it and the other didn't.

If I buy a lottery ticket and it wins, should I not have to pay taxes on it because of the "risk"? You know that's BS but it's the same argument you are making.

Most countries are run by elites who benefit from the economically unwise tax advantage given portfolio capital gains. That doesn't make it right it just points out the power that these persons have because of their wealth.

@AThousandYoung said
Carnegie was extremely damaging to the economy and the government had to step in and break up his business.

You are correct. A ruthless kind of guy. A+ for pointing out to the Forhm, a true AHole indeed, but I myself would not want to chat emotionally or factually about some guy 100 years ago. It is mostly his financial acumen l, and the contributions of which have led a lot to Enterprise in the United States of America, which is what I was referring to. My apologies to all folks who were offended by me, mentioning Carnegie.

@no1marauder said
The plumber could lose his wallet on the way home and there goes his $500. So what; the bottom line is that both are getting $500 with the difference one person had to actually work for it and the other didn't.

If I buy a lottery ticket and it wins, should I not have to pay taxes on it because of the "risk"? You know that's BS but it's the same argument you are making. ...[text shortened]... doesn't make it right it just points out the power that these persons have because of their wealth.

You again confuse consumption and investment.

The plumber’s labor is consumed immediately. The investor delays consumption, puts capital at risk for years, and finances productive activity in the economy. Those are economically different actions, so tax systems treat them differently.

And your lottery example actually hurts your argument. Lottery winnings ARE taxed as ordinary income . They are winfdalls they aren’t productive investment. If I buy stock in a company , it is not remotely the same thing as scratching a ticket…., economic enterprise vs gambling.

And why say economic investing is “doing nothing. Allocating money at risk is not “doing nothing”.

If Mr moneypenny invests, he expands biz, modernizes biz, hires workers, etc. Labor and capital need each each other., You know that..

All of you are right that wealthy people benefit more from capital gains rates because they invest more But the purpose of lower capital gains taxes is not “rewarding elites”; it’s encouraging long-term investment instead of punishing it. You all
Just don’t let go on that. You hate it for no reason..

You’re arguing from resentment about inequality, not from how economies actually function. Can you not admit at least that life ain’t fair? Everybody does what they do, but in the end, we all seem to turn out just fine with great opportunity. But no, you have to hate the Rich really weird.

@AverageJoe1 said
You again confuse consumption and investment.

The plumber’s labor is consumed immediately. The investor delays consumption, puts capital at risk for years, and finances productive activity in the economy. Those are economically different actions, so tax systems treat them differently.

And your lottery example actually hurts your argument. Lottery winnings ARE taxed ...[text shortened]... seem to turn out just fine with great opportunity. But no, you have to hate the Rich really weird.

All I can say is you are economically illiterate.

Buying a share of stock isn't "economic investment" at all as I already showed you. You'd fail an Economics test if you kept insisting it was:

"A lot of times, in my tests, I ask for an example of investment and I get “buying shares” or “putting money into something” as answers. Unfortunately, I have to mark both of these as incorrect. But why you may ask. Well lets take the first answer, buying shares in a company, and see why this is problematic. Let’s start with a few definitions.

What is investment?

Investment is the production or purchase of Capital goods.

What is Capital?

Capital is anything man made that is used in the production of goods and services.

In essence, investment is buying stuff (machines) that helps to make stuff."

"Scenario 3: The Business Guys issue no new shares so you just buy one from an already existing shareholder. Is this an investment. Well, in this case, the company never even got the money and as such it could not be an investment from the Business Guys point of view as we never got the money.Scenario 3: The Business Guys issue no new shares so you just buy one from an already existing shareholder. Is this an investment. Well, in this case, the company never even got the money and as such it could not be an investment from the Business Guys point of view as we never got the money."

https://gavinduffybusiness.com/blogs/lc-economics-blog/is-buying-shares-an-investment-in-the-economic-sense

Scenario 3 is probably 99% of stock transactions.

"Delaying consumption" by purchasing a piece of paper from another person is bad for the economy which depends on consumer spending (which accounts for 68% of US GDP https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DPCERE1Q156NBEA/). Business investment relies on consumer spending not people swapping pieces of paper.

You really need a college course in Economics to get over the brainwashing you have been spoon fed by propaganda lackeys of the elites.

AJ: Allocating money at risk is not “doing nothing”.

No, it's called "gambling".

@no1marauder said
All I can say is you are economically illiterate.

Buying a share of stock isn't "economic investment" at all as I already showed you. You'd fail an Economics test if you kept insisting it was:

"A lot of times, in my tests, I ask for an example of investment and I get “buying shares” or “putting money into something” as answers. Unfortunately, I have to mark both of ...[text shortened]... f the elites.

AJ: Allocating money at risk is not “doing nothing”.

No, it's called "gambling".

A bit late for me, but try this. No charge,

You’re getting lost in textbook semantics while ignoring how the real world works.Textbook.

Sure, if I buy an existing share of stock from someone else, the company doesn’t directly receive that exact dollar. But the existence of a stock market is what allows companies to raise huge amounts of money in the first place. No one would buy stock in a new company if they could never later sell it. You wouldn’t.
This ability to buy and sell is what makes investing possible. Thus the building , expanding, investing, hiring. Then you act like investing is trading piece of paper. The owner of the paper owns a piece of the biz. And don’t make light of consumer spending ,the fact is that products have to be produced, to be bought/consumed. You are essentially saying that only spending matters!?!?? That, investment does NOT matter?? Maybe I read it wrong. Every successful economy protects investment capital to some degree…….suchas those tax breaks that you and WGrass hate so much. Both of you…Wrong.
Consider an economy with no investments. No nothing, starting with the factory itself. No jobs, no tech stuff.

@AverageJoe1 said
A bit late for me, but try this. No charge,

You’re getting lost in textbook semantics while ignoring how the real world works.Textbook.

Sure, if I buy an existing share of stock from someone else, the company doesn’t directly receive that exact dollar. But the existence of a stock market is what allows companies to raise huge amounts of money in the first place. No ...[text shortened]... n economy with no investments. No nothing, starting with the factory itself. No jobs, no tech stuff.

This is a waste of my time; of course economic investment is important but buying stock isn't economic investment. That's not my opinion, it's Economics 101. And economics describes the real world not the fantasy world someone sold your simple mind on.

Rich folks can have all the money in the world, but if there is not robust consumer spending investment is going to be limited. That's another reason why growing income and wealth inequality is a problem; the rich spend far less as a percentage of their income than the working and middle class.

And when tax policy rewards that, it's a recipe for economic instability.

@no1marauder said
The plumber could lose his wallet on the way home and there goes his $500. So what; the bottom line is that both are getting $500 with the difference one person had to actually work for it and the other didn't.

If I buy a lottery ticket and it wins, should I not have to pay taxes on it because of the "risk"? You know that's BS but it's the same argument you are making. ...[text shortened]... doesn't make it right it just points out the power that these persons have because of their wealth.

Here is the end result of your liberal BS

https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-manufacturer-leaving-state-48-years-citing-crime-taxes-political-climate

@AverageJoe1 said
Do you not think that Trump is trying to get the United States in order. Do you just totally discount what he means when he says make America great again? You don’t believe him? That’s all he thinks about. He does not think about getting rich because he is rich. He doesn’t have that many friends, so why would you think he’s trying to wait the wealthier wealthy?

TDS definitely will ruin a man. Don’t get ruined.

LOL "trying"

You want to give dear leader a participation trophy? You want to reward him for things he "says"? What a joke.

The deficit skyrocketed almost immediately both times he's been president, directly resulting from insane tax cuts to people who don't need them and don't use them to grow the economy, combined with massive spending increases on stuff that doesn't help the economy. Meanwhile inflations heading back up, gas is up probably forever, farmers can't get fertilizer, manufacturers are leaving, we rejoined a middle east war that is unwinnable, we don't do cancer research anymore, and the only ones making money in this economy are the nerds trying to replace human brains with computers, plus of course the bankers, lawyers and oil companies.

Maybe he should stop trying and just take the L.

@Mott-The-Hoople said
Here is the end result of your liberal BS

https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-manufacturer-leaving-state-48-years-citing-crime-taxes-political-climate

I heard a funny joke from a kid whose friend wet the bed during nap time at school.

Says when he woke up, he blamed Obama.