https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/breaking-point-anti-lockdown-efforts-during-spanish-flu-offer-cautionary-n1202111
Anti-lockdown efforts during Spanish flu offer a cautionary tale for coronavirus
Opposition to public health directives forced some cities to roll back orders too quickly.
During the Spanish flu era, officials pushing public health mandates to stop the pandemic in its tracks were met with pushback across the country.
From San Francisco to Atlanta, Denver to Cleveland, pockets of opposition sprang up to decry the effects of the restrictions on businesses, religious communities and ordinary people.
The efforts bear a striking resemblance to those taking place today against the stay-at-home orders and other guidelines aimed to stop the spread of COVID-19. The efficacy of the various demonstrations offers a potential warning about how such strong opposition forced cities to roll back orders too quickly and disrupt what public health officials believed was a fairly tractable pandemic.
The mandates were largely effective, although city officials, believing the worst was behind them, lifted restrictions. But a spike in cases after the New Year in 1919 prompted the Board of Supervisors to re-enact the mandatory mask ordinance.
That's when the Anti-Mask League was formed.
The group included influential business and community leaders, including a member of the Board of Supervisors, and "were able to organize fairly quickly because there'd been a lot of opposition to the mask order the first time,"
Weeks later, the city's mayor rescinded the mask order after the persistent protests. In the end, the city recorded 45,000 cases and more than 3,000 deaths from fall 1918 to winter 1919
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07 Feb 22
@vivify saidI thought nbc was over in china holding hands with the communist killers.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/breaking-point-anti-lockdown-efforts-during-spanish-flu-offer-cautionary-n1202111
Anti-lockdown efforts during Spanish flu offer a cautionary tale for coronavirus
Opposition to public health directives forced some cities to roll back orders too quickly.
America was tired. Tired of the stay-at-home orders, m ...[text shortened]... were immune to the flu because of their beliefs, protested restrictions on public gatherings
Short version of OP: Idiots from today didn't learn from the past, dooming themselves to repeat it.
Just like in 1918, businessmen and religious leaders influence the public, pressuring governments to role back mandates, resulting in massive spikes.
50 million people died from the pandemic, partly because of such people. Fast forward to today, the U.S. *alone* is nearing 1 million pandemic deaths in just two years.
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07 Feb 22
@vivify saidCheck out these pix, interesting
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/breaking-point-anti-lockdown-efforts-during-spanish-flu-offer-cautionary-n1202111
Anti-lockdown efforts during Spanish flu offer a cautionary tale for coronavirus
Opposition to public health directives forced some cities to roll back orders too quickly.
America was tired. Tired of the stay-at-home orders, m ...[text shortened]... were immune to the flu because of their beliefs, protested restrictions on public gatherings
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/photos-from-the-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic/2/
07 Feb 22
@mott-the-hoople saidYour lying again NBC has reminded people of China’s human rights abuses at every opportunity.
I thought nbc was over in china holding hands with the communist killers.
Do you right wing never wake and say to yourselves
“just for today I’m going to tell the truth”
You might find it quite liberating.
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07 Feb 22
@kevcvs57 saidlike this?
Your lying again NBC has reminded people of China’s human rights abuses at every opportunity.
Do you right wing never wake and say to yourselves
“just for today I’m going to tell the truth”
You might find it quite liberating.
“ "NBC refused to air my Olympics ad with @EnesFreedom unless we censor U.S. corporate logos of the Genocide Games sponsors," Waltz tweeted on Saturday. "We won't let them silence us."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mike-waltz-advertising-nbc-olympics
07 Feb 22
@vivify saidIsn't this why we study history and listen to scientists?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/breaking-point-anti-lockdown-efforts-during-spanish-flu-offer-cautionary-n1202111
Anti-lockdown efforts during Spanish flu offer a cautionary tale for coronavirus
Opposition to public health directives forced some cities to roll back orders too quickly.
During the Spanish flu era, officials pushing public he ...[text shortened]... end, the city recorded 45,000 cases and more than 3,000 deaths from fall 1918 to winter 1919
The biggest let down of this whole thing is the scapegoating of scientists by leaders.
@vivify saidThey didn't have a vaccine and treatments in 1919 that made the disease essentially harmless to people who were interested in preserving their own health.
Short version of OP: Idiots from today didn't learn from the past, dooming themselves to repeat it.
Just like in 1918, businessmen and religious leaders influence the public, pressuring governments to role back mandates, resulting in massive spikes.
50 million people died from the pandemic, partly because of such people. Fast forward to today, the U.S. *alone* is nearing 1 million pandemic deaths in just two years.
@sh76 saidThe current protests in Canada were started by truckers who *refuse* vax mandates:
They didn't have a vaccine and treatments in 1919 that made the disease essentially harmless to people who were interested in preserving their own health.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/truckers-fighting-government-vaccine-mandate-march-canadian-capital-2022-01-24/
Truckers fighting government vaccine mandate march to Canadian capital
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07 Feb 22
@mott-the-hoople saidWashington Examiner, huh?
like this?
“ "NBC refused to air my Olympics ad with @EnesFreedom unless we censor U.S. corporate logos of the Genocide Games sponsors," Waltz tweeted on Saturday. "We won't let them silence us."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mike-waltz-advertising-nbc-olympics
Only source you could find
for this scandalous allegation?
You are pure DREK, MUTT.
@vivify saidThat is correct. They don't want vaccine mandates. They don't want mask mandates. They don't want social distancing mandates or any kind of mandate at all. They just want to choose to make their own healthcare decisions as they see fit.
The current protests in Canada were started by truckers who *refuse* vax mandates:
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/truckers-fighting-government-vaccine-mandate-march-canadian-capital-2022-01-24/
Truckers fighting government vaccine mandate march to Canadian capital
1. Most people have the power to make themselves essentially invulnerable to COVID severe disease.
2. Ergo, nobody can really harm you by giving you COVID if you make good healthcare decisions for yourself.
3. Ergo, you have nothing to worry about if you allow other people to make their own healthcare decisions.
4. In that context, what they decide for themselves is really none of your business.
Which statement do you disagree with?
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07 Feb 22
@sh76 saidDo........''their healthcare decisions...............''
That is correct. They don't want vaccine mandates. They don't want mask mandates. They don't want social distancing mandates or any kind of mandate at all. They just want to choose to make their own healthcare decisions as they see fit.
1. Most people have the power to make themselves essentially invulnerable to COVID severe disease.
2. Ergo, nobody can really harm you by ...[text shortened]... they decide for themselves is really none of your business.
Which statement do you disagree with?
allow them to spread the disease to others?
Would they be prosecuted if it were AIDS?
Should they be allowed to attend Public School? Join The Military?
As it stands now, they aren't allowed to do either without various vaccines.
@sh76 saidThese two statements are false. Vaccines don't make you "invulnerable" they simply increase resistance. That's why more unvaccinated people end up hospitals for COVID. But even vaxed people can get sick, albeit at significantly lower levels.
That is correct. They don't want vaccine mandates. They don't want mask mandates. They don't want social distancing mandates or any kind of mandate at all. They just want to choose to make their own healthcare decisions as they see fit.
1. Most people have the power to make themselves essentially invulnerable to COVID severe disease.
2. Ergo, nobody can really harm you by giving you COVID if you make good healthcare decisions for yourself.
You're also forgetting two critical things:
1) Unvaxed people are a major cause of hospitals being overwhelmed during Covid spikes. This takes away from the ability of hospitals to treat other patients, including those who are hospitalized for non-Covid reasons. Their selfishness does indeed harm others.
2) Vaccines can stop new strains from developing and spreading. The unvaccinated are helping new strains evolve, especially if they're like you and promote abandoning precautions like wearing masks. These new strains could include deadlier variants resistant to the effects of vaccines. So again, the unvaccinated could indeed harm you.
@jimm619 saidLet's go with the AIDS comparison for a minute. I'm glad you raised it.
Do........''their healthcare decisions...............''
allow them to spread the disease to others?
Would they be prosecuted if it were AIDS?
Should they be allowed to attend Public School? Join The Military?
As it stands now, they aren't allowed to do either without various vaccines.
Intentionally having unprotected sex when one knows one is HIV positive and the other person does not know can certainly be a crime. This would be analogous to going into a crowded room knowing one is SARS-CoV-2 positive and not telling anyone.
Having protected sex when one knows one is HIV positive would probably not be considered a crime. This is analogous to walking into a crowded room knowing one is SARS-CoV-2 positive while wearing an N-95.
Having any kind sex when one knows one is HIV positive but one's partner also knows is almost certainly not a crime. This is analogous to walking into a crowded room knowing one is SARS-CoV-2 positive but warning everyone.
Argue about these cases if you like, but NOBODY would argue that engaging in sexual activity when one has no idea one is HIV positive would be a crime because one MIGHT be HIV positive. This is analogous to mask or vaccine mandates designed to protect other people.
A mask mandate is analogous to a blanket condom mandate across everyone because you never know who is HIV-positive.
A vaccine mandate is analogous to mandatory Pre-Exposure Prophylaxis against HIV for EVERYONE because you never know who might become HIV-positive (except that unlike COVID vaccines, Pre-Exposure Prophylaxis against HIV are close to 99% effective against infection and transmission.
No public health agency would have proposed either of these steps.
@vivify saidVaccines don't make you "invulnerable" they simply increase resistance.
These two statements are false. Vaccines don't make you "invulnerable" they simply increase resistance. That's why more unvaccinated people end up hospitals for COVID. But even vaxed people can get sick, albeit at significantly lower levels.
You're also forgetting two critical things:
1) Unvaxed people are a major cause of hospitals being overwhelmed during Covid spik ...[text shortened]... er variants resistant to the effects of vaccines. So again, the unvaccinated could indeed harm you.
=== They make you statistically less vulnerable than you are to influenza (or at least on par); certainly not the sort of vulnerability that you would live your life around pre-2020.
1) Unvaxed people are a major cause of hospitals being overwhelmed during Covid spikes. This takes away from the ability of hospitals to treat other patients, including those who are hospitalized for non-Covid reasons. Their selfishness does indeed harm others.
=== In areas where hospitals are currently being overwhelmed, perhaps. As the Omicron wave continues to ebb, this argument will become less and less tenable.
2) Vaccines can stop new strains from developing and spreading. The unvaccinated are helping new strains evolve, especially if they're like you and promote abandoning precautions like wearing masks. These new strains could include deadlier variants resistant to the effects of vaccines. So again, the unvaccinated could indeed harm you.
=== That's way too speculative and attenuated. New strains can develop anywhere in the world amongst billions of people and animals. The vaccinated can also become infected. Mandating that Americans get vaccinated is a drop in the bucket in the landscape of new strains evolving (which will happen anyway, no matter what we do).