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  1. 25 Feb '13 07:41
    The insane proliferation of guns in our society.

    February 24, 2013

    A 4-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed himself with his father's gun in north Houston early Sunday morning. Jaiden Pratt was spending the weekend with his father, 21-year-old Marquiez Pratt . . . when the accident occurred, said Sgt. Brian Harris with the Houston Police Department's homicide department.

    Father and son had been sleeping on the couch. The young boy woke up and picked up his father's handgun lying nearby, shooting himself in the stomach, police said. Neighbors heard the shot.

    About 8:15 a.m., Houston Police Department patrol officers and an ambulance responded to the call. The father, wearing just a T-shirt and boxer shorts, ran out of his second-story apartment, holding his son's body, screaming and yelling at neighbors for help. Upon arrival, EMTs took Jaiden from his father's arms and tried to revive the boy. He was declared dead at the scene.

    http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Infant-killed-by-gunfire-in-N-Houston-4304104.php
  2. 25 Feb '13 10:46
    http://www.americanrifleman.org/BlogList.aspx?cid=25&id=21
  3. 25 Feb '13 13:45
    Originally posted by moon1969
    The insane proliferation of guns in our society.

    [quote]February 24, 2013

    A 4-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed himself with his father's gun in north Houston early Sunday morning. Jaiden Pratt was spending the weekend with his father, 21-year-old Marquiez Pratt . . . when the accident occurred, said Sgt. Brian Harris with the Houston Police ...[text shortened]... on.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Infant-killed-by-gunfire-in-N-Houston-4304104.php
    Leaving a loaded gun out within children's reach is like leaving a baby in a car with the windows rolled up on a hot summers day. No one blames the car do they.
  4. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    25 Feb '13 16:16
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    Leaving a loaded gun out within children's reach is like leaving a baby in a car with the windows rolled up on a hot summers day. No one blames the car do they.
    No Joe, nobody blames cars and nobody really blames guns. They blame the people in possession of those obejcts and ask for responsible ownership. It would not be responsible to put a four year old child in charge of either a car with its engine on or a loaded gun.

    Similarly nobody blames the child in this story - they blame the idiot adult responsible for his care.

    Thing is I suspect cars kill more people than guns. So it seems reasonable to control the ownership and use of cars and there are areas where cars are not allowed. It's just obvious don't you think? Similarly it seems obvious that there should be controls over the ownership and use of guns and there are areas where guns ought to be excluded.

    On the whole, also, I would note that the object for which guns are designed is to kill people. By and large. Certainly that seems to be what people envisage doing with their guns. So maybe that is less to be encouraged and protected than, say, driving cars with the risk of cars killing people.

    On the whole killing is to be discouraged don't you agree?
  5. 25 Feb '13 16:39 / 1 edit
    Another dead child thanks to worthless parents.

    What's worse? Letting a drug dealing schmuck like Mr. Pratt be in possession of legal and/or illegal weapons or letting him procreate and be a father?
  6. 25 Feb '13 17:16
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    Leaving a loaded gun out within children's reach is like leaving a baby in a car with the windows rolled up on a hot summers day. No one blames the car do they.
    a car is neither built for baby-sitting or killing people. the car was being used all wrong.

    a gun is built for shooting and killing things. the gun was being used correctly.


    correlations shouldnt really be drawn between things being used wrongly and things being used correctly.
  7. 25 Feb '13 18:39
    Originally posted by moon1969
    The insane proliferation of guns in our society.

    [quote]February 24, 2013

    A 4-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed himself with his father's gun in north Houston early Sunday morning. Jaiden Pratt was spending the weekend with his father, 21-year-old Marquiez Pratt . . . when the accident occurred, said Sgt. Brian Harris with the Houston Police ...[text shortened]... on.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Infant-killed-by-gunfire-in-N-Houston-4304104.php
    Insane proliferation of stupid posts.
  8. 25 Feb '13 18:48
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Insane proliferation of stupid posts.
    If you want some serious discussion, there was an interesting article about guns in Switzerland on the BBC News website recently.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21379912

    Here's an interesting excerpt:
    In an average year here, there is one gun murder for every 200,000 of the population - in the US that figure is several times higher. But there are more domestic homicides and suicides with a firearm in Switzerland than pretty much anywhere else in Europe except Finland.


    Guess what Finland and Switzerland have in common?
  9. 25 Feb '13 18:52
    Originally posted by finnegan
    No Joe, nobody blames cars and nobody really blames guns. They blame the people in possession of those obejcts and ask for responsible ownership. It would not be responsible to put a four year old child in charge of either a car with its engine on or a loaded gun.

    Similarly nobody blames the child in this story - they blame the idiot adult responsible f ...[text shortened]... risk of cars killing people.

    On the whole killing is to be discouraged don't you agree?
    "On the whole, also, I would note that the object for which guns are designed is to kill people. By and large. Certainly that seems to be what people envisage doing with their guns."

    In some 30 years of carrying a gun every day, I never envisioned killing someone except as a last resort. I did on quite a few occasions use my gun to avoid having to kill or injure someone with violent intentions. The gun has a deterrent effect in some ways similar to nuclear weapons. Otherwise aggressive and violent people become passive looking down the barrel of a .45. Most of those people will take their chances on a fist or knife fight.

    Police carry guns, and large capacity magazines with the hope that they will never be required.
  10. 25 Feb '13 18:53
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    If you want some serious discussion, there was an interesting article about guns in Switzerland on the BBC News website recently.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21379912

    Here's an interesting excerpt:
    In an average year here, there is one gun murder for every 200,000 of the population - in the US that figure is several times higher. Bu ...[text shortened]... re else in Europe except Finland.


    Guess what Finland and Switzerland have in common?
    High level of gun ownership.
  11. 25 Feb '13 18:54
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    a car is neither built for baby-sitting or killing people. the car was being used all wrong.

    a gun is built for shooting and killing things. the gun was being used correctly.


    correlations shouldnt really be drawn between things being used wrongly and things being used correctly.
    Are you implying that the proper use of a firearm is that a child kill themselves?
  12. 25 Feb '13 18:58
    Stairs are also dangerous to young children. Let's abolish two-story houses.
  13. 25 Feb '13 19:01
    Originally posted by normbenign
    High level of gun ownership.
    Bingo!
  14. 25 Feb '13 19:13
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Bingo!
    So would it not be logical to seek some other factor than high levels of gun ownership as a factor in killings, accidental and criminal?

    The same or higher levels of legal gun ownership exist in rural and in urban America. Farmers in rural Illinois aren't shooting each other in drive byes like the gang bangers in Chicago.

    There are obviously cultural factors afoot.
  15. 25 Feb '13 19:57
    Originally posted by finnegan
    No Joe, nobody blames cars and nobody really blames guns. They blame the people in possession of those obejcts and ask for responsible ownership. It would not be responsible to put a four year old child in charge of either a car with its engine on or a loaded gun.

    Similarly nobody blames the child in this story - they blame the idiot adult responsible f ...[text shortened]... risk of cars killing people.

    On the whole killing is to be discouraged don't you agree?
    That is a good argument. There is one problem with it though. The government having a database of where the guns are and controlling who can get a licence runs counter to the second amendment. The right was not written with duck hunters in mind but with the common man being able to organize and throw off a bad government. Thankfully it hasn't come to that, but if it ever did, government interference in firearms ownership would put the common man at a severe disadvantage. As Capt. Call said on Lonsome Dove "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it." There will always be accidents with firearms unfortunately, but mandatory training will not stop that completely. Stiff sentencing may help in cases like this as an example to others, but that may not be effective either. Taking everyone second amendment right away would also not be effective for the same reasons and is not in the cards.