Originally posted by torch71Portugal is far from perfect, so I don't want to sound like I'm defending it to be something sort of paradise it clearly is not.
Sounds like what we have now, so what do they do about people who still cross and stay illegally, and don't have jobs?
Immigration hasn't really been on the main political agenda, despite greater influx. But if you ask around, I'm sure you can see the whole spectrum of opinions as in here. To be honest, I don't know the legal treatment of people who cross illegally and don't have jobs.
Note that I don't think "blanket amnesty" or "open borders" is the solution either. What I do think is that, regardless of what anyone's opinion on a country's border policy is, we need to understand that we are dealing with human beings and they should be treated with the respect they deserve.
Having lived in several different countries I appreciate how many times countries discourage immigration by treating immigrants like sub-humans. I don't think this is acceptable. We can and should have rules for immigration, but these rules should provide people "fair pathways to legal immigration".
If you make it a gruelling process to be accepted into a country, then people will not feel welcome and feel very little need to integrate and be a constructive part of that society. They will not forget how they were treated at the immigration office. They will not forget how they were made to wait 8/10 hours in the queue, many times outside in the rain or snow. They will not forget the many times they've heard a blanket attack on how bad immigrants are and how they should be deported.
Make rules that are fair, treat people with respect and limit the inflow of immigrants up to the necessary amount and then apply them seriously.
Is this too much to ask?
Originally posted by PalynkaAbsolutely not, speaking to the few legal immigrants I have befriended, it is a lenghthy process but not degrading. As for the illegals, they have received health care via free clinics, purchased property, and even make a tidy living, although it is hard work in the fields and warehouses that employ them they do live rather well. Probably better than some did in thier home country. I do not feel I am above or below anyone, but I do believe in the law.
Portugal is far from perfect, so I don't want to sound like I'm defending it to be something sort of paradise it clearly is not.
Immigration hasn't really been on the main political agenda, despite greater influx. But if you ask around, I'm sure you can see the whole spectrum of opinions as in here. To be honest, I don't know the legal treatment of people ...[text shortened]... the necessary amount and then apply them seriously.
Is this too much to ask?
Even if the process of legalization is long and hard, it is the end of the journey you must keep in mind, and not opt for the easy alternative.
Originally posted by torch71yes - it is the end of the journey is what most immigrants have in mind when they come in. Even if the legal version of the journey is not degrading, it is still lengthy. Most will take shortcuts if it means reaching the end of the journey a lot faster.
Absolutely not, speaking to the few legal immigrants I have befriended, it is a lenghthy process but not degrading. As for the illegals, they have received health care via free clinics, purchased property, and even make a tidy living, although it is hard work in the fields and warehouses that employ them they do live rather well. Probably better than some di ...[text shortened]... hard, it is the end of the journey you must keep in mind, and not opt for the easy alternative.
Originally posted by FMFWho said anything about driving them out? Why not just stop the current influx?"
More like a step in the direction of trying to solve a massive and chronic problem in a practical way. Driving 14,000,000 de facto Americans out of the country is probably just too impractical and would make for very ugly politics. I think Scotty70 is right about the need to do this properly with background checks etc.
Originally posted by torch71Are you saying there were no laws until the U.S. enacted some or what?
Current LEGAL immigrants are not killing natives either, at least that I know of.
Also can you tell me what laws were broken 233 yrs ago or earlier that made it illegal for immigrants to take land in the Northern Americas.
As far as I know land has been taken over across the world, by many means. Even the American Indians took land from one another. Si ...[text shortened]... ve been laws in place and as long as the current occupier can enforce those laws, than so be it.
Lulz!
Ok, ok, let me get this straight. Since the First Nations didn't have a Congress
enacting immigration and land property laws... hahaha... wait, I can't stop
laughing... 😵 Ok, here we go: are you saying that since there was no Congress
enacting laws the killing of natives and stealing of their lands was game?
Wait, lulz,... man, you made my day... sorry, I have to bring some colleagues
to read this 🙂
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Originally posted by sh76Thanks for responding to your own post.
But don't tell me that the illegal immigrants are morally entitled to amnesty. They are not.
It is the chest bumping patriots the ones who are not morally entitled
to get all righteous and sanctimonious about this.
Except for Sitting Bull's grand grand kids, not a single American can claim
any moral entitlement which is "stronger" than the one from the first Quackers
or the immigrants who are arriving to the country as we speak.
Edit. You should know better, by the way. Our people has been erratically
wandering throughout the world until... well, you know.
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I wish people would just shut up about this - I like lettuce on my cow burgers - and it is not like those in control of capital are going to give any more wages than they have to (like enough to live and prosper) to get the lettuce picked or any other job done. They've proved that.
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Originally posted by SeitseIs that your reply, my point was in the times people of north america were lawless, and again all throughout history land has been taken by one sort or another. Your own country (Mexico), if that is your country has seen its fair share as well. That being stated, since no one is able to roam freely to every country, you must obide by the laws of that country, or get your illegal but booted.
Are you saying there were no laws until the U.S. enacted some or what?
Lulz!
Ok, ok, let me get this straight. Since the First Nations didn't have a Congress
enacting immigration and land property laws... hahaha... wait, I can't stop
laughing... 😵 Ok, here we go: are you saying that since there was no Congress
enacting laws the killing of natives an ...[text shortened]... Wait, lulz,... man, you made my day... sorry, I have to bring some colleagues
to read this 🙂
Originally posted by torch71Lawless? Yup, man, the world was lawless until the U.S. enacted the proclamation.
lawless
Also, the winner of the MLB is the champion of the world; moreover, "football" means
NFL, oh, and pizza was invented in the U.S.
Dude, you are clueless. And you perpetrate the stereotype of Americans as
arrogant, ignorant people.
Originally posted by SeitseLook at yourself in a mirror before you throw the stone, your own country is full of immigrants and enact immigration laws and enforce them way further than we do.
Lawless? Yup, man, the world was lawless until the U.S. enacted the proclamation.
Also, the winner of the MLB is the champion of the world; moreover, "football" means
NFL, oh, and pizza was invented in the U.S.
Dude, you are clueless. And you perpetrate the stereotype of Americans as
arrogant, ignorant people.
1 edit
Originally posted by torch71Dude, study law before you speak about the law.
Look at yourself in a mirror before you throw the stone, your own country is full of immigrants and enact immigration laws and enforce them way further than we do.
And stay on topic. We're not talking about my country here nor I have ever
posted "get those immigrants out of it".
Kids do that, you know: "b... b... but Martin gave him a wedgie too, Mrs. Crabapple!"
As said, if you perpetrate the negative stereotype of the Americans the terrorists win.
Do you hate America?