15 Nov 09
2 edits
Originally posted by StarrmanWell that was exactly my point.
I think you missed the point... Sam is under the impression they won't be nationals in the true sense. Only those born as Americans can complain, in his view. These new nationals should be thankful and cease forever to have an opinion on their country.
Edit: Duh! I see. I thought your comment was in reply to my post.
15 Nov 09
Originally posted by StarrmanThe 'Bigotry Radar' is powerful in you, Luke.
I think you missed the point... Sam is under the impression they won't be nationals in the true sense. Only those born as Americans can complain, in his view. These new nationals should be thankful and cease forever to have an opinion on their country.
15 Nov 09
Originally posted by Sartor ResartusThey also have the option of standing for office and trying to improve things in their adopted country - or at least being active, vocal and voting discerningly. Political participation: probably a better bet. And probably safer and more likely to succeed than in many of the countries they were born in.
Well, they always hae the option of returning to their own Countries if they feel aggrieved.
15 Nov 09
Originally posted by FMFThe competent ones would be better occupied in helping to improve conditions in their native lands.
They also have the option of standing for office and trying to improve things in their adopted country - or at least being active, vocal and voting discerningly. Political participation: probably a better bet. And probably safer and more likely to succeed than in many of the countries they were born in.
15 Nov 09
Originally posted by Scotty70Let peaceful people cross borders freely.
Only if that immigration reform includes something of a rudimentary background check for those applying and a comprehensive plan to strengthen or close down our borders.
If these people want to enlist the services of guvamint thugs to remove wealth from current citizens they could not be defined as peaceful. If they want to stand on their own two feet pay no tax and make no claims they are probably better off remaining illegal.
15 Nov 09
Originally posted by Sartor ResartusIt's impossible - and irrelevant, anyway - to try to decide whether it would be 'better' to do that or not, as this is about individual choice. And it's about whether or not one is aggrieved with things in one's adopted country. If the latter is the case, I should imagine the possibility of changing those things (or working hard to transcend or escape from them) is going to be more likely in the U.S. than where they originally came from, in many cases. Once they are Americans, "conditions in their native lands" are only relevant in terms of family connections and perhaps U.S. economic and foreign policy.
The competent ones would be better occupied in helping to improve conditions in their native lands.
15 Nov 09
Originally posted by FMFFunny thing about paying taxes, many illegals already do pay some taxes. They have to use fake social security numbers to get jobs.
Well it will be a dream come true for the 14,000,000 people involved. And also for the 3,000,000 or 4,000,000 individuals or small businesses that employ them. And it will be a boost for the economy as millions more tax payers come on line. Fraught with problems, and a bit of unavoidable trampling on the Rule of Law involved, but - nevertheless - on balance probably a good policy.
15 Nov 09
1 edit
Originally posted by StarrmanNo because moving to a country and then whinning about how awful it is begs the question "then why did you come here?" or maybe "why don't you go back to where you came from?"
Because that right is reserved solely for nationals. 🙄
15 Nov 09
Originally posted by Sam The ShamThey probably leave their own country to try to do the best for themselves and their families, usually for economic reasons but sometimes to escape violence and persecution, or for better education, etc. It does not mean that the country they go to is perfect (as no country is), and it does not mean they don't have the right to complain about anything that is wrong with their new country.
No because moving to a country and then whinning about how awful it is begs the question "then why did you come here?" or maybe "why don't you go back to where you came from?"
It is not their fault if some nationals are so super sensitive that they cannot accept any criticism. It is also a littile ironic that it is these same nationals who are usually the most vociferous complainers about their own country. So, any immigrants who 'whine' about their adopted country would actually be agreeing with them.
15 Nov 09
Originally posted by Sam The ShamFirstly, learn the proper use of the phrase 'begs the question'.
No because moving to a country and then whinning about how awful it is begs the question "then why did you come here?" or maybe "why don't you go back to where you came from?"
Secondly, no it doesn't. There's not a single country in the world which is perfect, you yourself moan like a bitch about a great many things in the US. To live in a country and not have an opinion on it would be absurd. That someone has only recently moved to a country or been granted any form of native status makes no impact whatsoever on whether their opinions should be silenced.
The plain fact of the matter is that you are a bigot who foolishly believes that you have some right, by an accident of birth, to have an opinion which others do not have for their accident of birth. Juvenile, pathetic, bigotted.
15 Nov 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonillegal aliens? you mean like this guy?
Napolitano Announces Obama Administration Plan to Give Amnesty to Illegal Aliens
Friday, November 13, 2009
By Penny Starr, Senior Staff Writer
(CNSNews.com) –[b]Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Friday that the Obama administration will push for “immigration reform” by giving the estimated 14 million people who are in the Unit ...[text shortened]... ep in Obamas plan to "fundamentally change America"
Is this a good thing for the U.S. or bad?
http://www.thelatinoreport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Targets+illegal+alien+costume.jpg