An example of good guy with a gun

Crazy people who shoot family members they think are burglars. The date on this article is December, 2013. I am a woman. I travel the world alone. I'd rather hang out in Kigali, Rwanda after dark than Chicago.

...."A Colorado Springs father fatally shot his teenage step-daughter Monday, saying he thought she was a burglar. Prior to the incident, police received a call about a burglary in progress. But when they got there, they found the 14-year-old with a gunshot wound. She was taken to the hospital and died soon after, according to CBS Denver.

The incident is the latest tragedy involving the use of deadly force to protect the home. And it is one of several incidents in which a parent has killed their own child after they mistook them for a burglar. Last September a Connecticut teacher shot and killed his 15-year-old son after his neighbor called to say she thought she saw a robber in the front yard. Just a few weeks after that, a retired Chicago police officer shot and killed his 48-year-old son after he came in the back door late one night. And an off-duty police officer killed his son last July while the two were on vacation in upstate New York, after he told police he believed him to be an intruder. In that case, shooter Michael Leach was charged with second-degree manslaughter and is facing prison time."

Originally posted by normbenign
Does that imply more pool and auto control?

yes, we have pool and auto control.

Originally posted by normbenign
Does that imply more pool and auto control?

Indeed, it might mean more pool and auto control or more enforcement of the current laws around seat belt use, speeding, driving while intoxicated, fences around pools, etc.

on the subject of cars, seat belts are mandatory in many countries.

it's annoying but it doesn't prevent you from driving a car. its benefits are proven and far outweigh some minor annoyance you might have over having to use it.



if someone would say that seat belts deny them the right to own and drive cars, everyone would consider that someone a moron, and rightfully so.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
on the subject of cars, seat belts are mandatory in many countries.

it's annoying but it doesn't prevent you from driving a car. its benefits are proven and far outweigh some minor annoyance you might have over having to use it.



if someone would say that seat belts deny them the right to own and drive cars, everyone would consider that someone a moron, and rightfully so.

In truth, no one is asking to take away the right to own a gun in the U.S. What is being demanded is that individuals who have mental health issues or a history of violent behavior not have a gun. People are demanding safety features on guns to help prevent accidental shootings. People are demanding stiffer penalties for those who sell guns to people who shouldn't have them and to those who are careless with a gun such as not keeping them away from children. Most people do not want vigilantes running around meting out their own interpretation of justice thinking they are legitimately assisting trained police officers. Many question the concealed carry laws. I stay away from neighborhood bars in the U.S. because you never know when someone has a loaded pistol in their pocket or purse and might, in a drunken rage, start to shoot. At least in other countries it might be a knife or broken bottle, which are far less likely to physically affect the bystander.

Originally posted by Phranny
Indeed, it might mean more pool and auto control or more enforcement of the current laws around seat belt use, speeding, driving while intoxicated, fences around pools, etc.

Face it, most enforcement of driving rules is done to collect revenue, not to promote safety. I see pools as useless, but that's just me. I don't begrudge others the right to waste their money.

Originally posted by Phranny
In truth, no one is asking to take away the right to own a gun in the U.S. What is being demanded is that individuals who have mental health issues or a history of violent behavior not have a gun. People are demanding safety features on guns to help prevent accidental shootings. People are demanding stiffer penalties for those who sell guns to people who ...[text shortened]... might be a knife or broken bottle, which are far less likely to physically affect the bystander.

What is being demanded is that individuals who have mental health issues or a history of violent behavior not have a gun.

That is currently the law. NICS system in less than 15 minutes verifies that you are eligible, or not.

People are demanding safety features on guns to help prevent accidental shootings.

Such as? Many are impractical, and would make guns nearly useless where they are needed.

People are demanding stiffer penalties for those who sell guns to people who shouldn't have them and to those who are careless with a gun such as not keeping them away from children.

These are in most places the law of the land.

Most people do not want vigilantes running around meting out their own interpretation of justice thinking they are legitimately assisting trained police officers.

And most concealed carry licensees don't see themselves as vigilantes.

Many question the concealed carry laws.

OH. Who? They seem to be democratically enacted in more and more states.

I stay away from neighborhood bars in the U.S. because you never know when someone has a loaded pistol in their pocket or purse and might, in a drunken rage, start to shoot.

Staying away from neighborhood bars is a good idea, but concealed carry is generally not allowed in those. The likely shooter in those places never had, and never will have a CCW.

No matter where you are, it is a good idea to avoid places where drunks get violent.

Have you come to grips with the notion that the so called "good guy" of this thread may be ill defined.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
on the subject of cars, seat belts are mandatory in many countries.

it's annoying but it doesn't prevent you from driving a car. its benefits are proven and far outweigh some minor annoyance you might have over having to use it.



if someone would say that seat belts deny them the right to own and drive cars, everyone would consider that someone a moron, and rightfully so.

Requiring seat belt use in my commercial vehicle would have cost me a couple of hours a day. At times I serve upwards of 150 customers a day. That's a lot of buckling and unbuckling. Fortunately, my State made an exception for drivers like me, but there are many other times when wearing a seat belt is inconvenient, when the benefit is not that positive or immediate.

Originally posted by normbenign
[b] What is being demanded is that individuals who have mental health issues or a history of violent behavior not have a gun.

That is currently the law. NICS system in less than 15 minutes verifies that you are eligible, or not.

People are demanding safety features on guns to help prevent accidental shootings.

Such as? Many are impract ...[text shortened]... u come to grips with the notion that the so called "good guy" of this thread may be ill defined.[/b]

"NICS system in less than 15 minutes verifies that you are eligible, or not."
except at gun shows. and when buying from a random dude in a parking lot. sure, one is not allowed to sell to someone if they think they won't pass a background check, but then again, one isn't required to find that out.

"Such as? Many are impractical, and would make guns nearly useless where they are needed."
when you are dead, they are really useless.


"Have you come to grips with the notion that the so called "good guy" of this thread may be ill defined"
your obtuseness starts to be embarassing.

Originally posted by FishHead111
Thanks but that has nothing to do with your blanket statement about it being insane to shoot someone carjacking you.

One, that was not my blanket statement. I'd defend someone's right to defend himself, though not his "right" to have to assume that he's going to attacked by thugs with guns - an assumption one has to make in the USA, evidently, but not, thank God, in my country.

Two, it was not the victim who shot the carjacker, the victim was shot, victimised a second time, by a random passer-by moron-with-a-gun who, had he not run away, all the usual teabaggers in this group would have called a Good Guy.

Originally posted by normbenign
What is being demanded is that individuals who have mental health issues or a history of violent behavior not have a gun.

That is currently the law. NICS system in less than 15 minutes verifies that you are eligible, or not.

Oh, yeah, and that has proven very effective...

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"NICS system in less than 15 minutes verifies that you are eligible, or not."
except at gun shows. and when buying from a random dude in a parking lot. sure, one is not allowed to sell to someone if they think they won't pass a background check, but then again, one isn't required to find that out.

"Such as? Many are impractical, and would make guns near ...[text shortened]... called "good guy" of this thread may be ill defined"
your obtuseness starts to be embarassing.

except at gun shows. and when buying from a random dude in a parking lot. sure, one is not allowed to sell to someone if they think they won't pass a background check, but then again, one isn't required to find that out.

That isn't just at gun shows. If I want to sell a personal firearm, that I legally own, I don't have to do the paperwork and NICS check that a gun dealer does. The gun show is not a good place for the ineligible to go to try and buy a weapon, as they are routinely frequented by Feds posing as sellers.

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
Oh, yeah, and that has proven very effective...

The great majority of guns sold, almost all new guns, are sold to legitimate buyers without criminal or mental history. I would say it is effective, but not perfect. Can you think of any human institution that is?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"NICS system in less than 15 minutes verifies that you are eligible, or not."
except at gun shows. and when buying from a random dude in a parking lot. sure, one is not allowed to sell to someone if they think they won't pass a background check, but then again, one isn't required to find that out.

"Such as? Many are impractical, and would make guns near ...[text shortened]... called "good guy" of this thread may be ill defined"
your obtuseness starts to be embarassing.

your obtuseness starts to be embarrassing.

It is you who are obtuse. Try defining the terms specifically. The guy who shot the wrong person, and fled, how is he in any sense of the word, good?

If your English is poor, just admit it, and don't continue to try to outsmart native speakers by using improper words.

Originally posted by normbenign
The great majority of guns sold, almost all new guns, are sold to legitimate buyers without criminal or mental history. I would say it is effective, but not perfect. Can you think of any human institution that is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#Perfect_solution_fallacy