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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    12 Aug '09 15:53 / 2 edits
    Town hall meetings have recently become the scene of angry, loud, and ignorant people intent on spreading Lies and Misinformation.

    Lie Number 1. Big Government is taking over healthcare in America! Anyone who has bothered to read this proposal will see it's being introduced as an option...not a requirement. This option is designed for people who do not qualify for any kind of insurance coverage to have access to at least a small amount of healthcare for themselves and there families.

    Lie Number 2. Big Government is going to use tax dollars to fund abortions! Once again, anyone who has bothered to read this proposal will see it does not cover abortions, nor was it designed to.

    Lie Number 3. Big Government is going to dictate what kind of healthcare I'll get!! Sadly, these misinformed people have no idea what this legislation is designed to do, and many of them don't want to know either.

    Insurance Companies, HMO's and Drug Companies know they will lose some market share if this public option passes, and is signed into law. To protect there bottom line, these multi-billion dollar companies have paid millions of dollars in political contributions to lawmakers to prevent this, and have helped organize these noisy disruptions of town hall meetings. Sadly, there efforts may very well succeed, if so, millions of hard working Americans will continue to be denied health care coverage so these large corperations can continue to reap there windfall profits.

    As a small business person, (Real Estate Agent) I would like to have a public option for myself and my wife. Our health coverage costs us over $400.00 a month, and the downturn in the economy has not helped our situation. I hope our lawmakers remember that small business people like me employ a much larger percentage of Americans than the fortune 500 group and do the right thing.
  2. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    12 Aug '09 16:05
    Originally posted by bill718
    Town hall meetings have recently become the scene of angry, loud, and ignorant people intent on spreading Lies and Misinformation.

    Lie Number 1. Big Government is taking over healthcare in America! Anyone who has bothered to read this proposal will see it's being introduced as an option...not a requirement. This option is designed for people who do not qu ...[text shortened]... y a much larger percentage of Americans than the fortune 500 group and do the right thing.
    It doesn't matter. This isn't about lies, or misinformation.

    This is simply a case of many americans refusing to agree to anything that doesn't benefit them directly. 50% of Americans are and always will be selfish self-serving people.

    You can't change that. The only thing that will change that mentality is the inevitable bankruptcy that will come without healthcare/social security reform.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Aug '09 16:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by bill718
    Town hall meetings have recently become the scene of angry, loud, and ignorant people intent on spreading Lies and Misinformation.

    Lie Number 1. Big Government is taking over healthcare in America! Anyone who has bothered to read this proposal will see it's being introduced as an option...not a requirement. This option is designed for people who do not qu y a much larger percentage of Americans than the fortune 500 group and do the right thing.
    You're wrong about 1 and 3. Perhaps you didn't see my other thread, but the business about it being an "option" is misleading. HR 3200 calls for the phase out of all non-complying private insurance. As it is, existing private insurance can only exist as long as the insurance company makes no changes in the policy. Only then is it grandfathered in. No new private non-complying policies may be issued.

    Government agencies will control the purse strings for the publicly funded system. As such, they will dictate the kind of healthcare you get. That's true in single payer systems like Canada and in systems where the government pays people's insurance. People on Medicaid, to an extent, have their care dictated by government agencies. That's not necessarily the worst thing in the World, but it's a fact under the proposed bill.

    I don't given a damn about #2 so I'm not going to research or comment on it.

    Oh, and you're one lucky fellow to be paying only $400 a month in health insurance premiums for a couple. I wouldn't be too sure that your premiums plus extra taxes assessed to fund the plan will be less than that. In fact, don't be surprised if your healthcare costs go up in the aggregate.
  4. 12 Aug '09 16:14
    Originally posted by bill718
    Town hall meetings have recently become the scene of angry, loud, and ignorant people intent on spreading Lies and Misinformation.

    Lie Number 1. Big Government is taking over healthcare in America! Anyone who has bothered to read this proposal will see it's being introduced as an option...not a requirement. This option is designed for people who do not qu ...[text shortened]... y a much larger percentage of Americans than the fortune 500 group and do the right thing.
    "Town hall meetings have recently become the scene of angry, loud, and ignorant people intent on spreading Lies and Misinformation."

    Remind you of Cindy Sheehan? No one seemed to complain when Bush was on the recieving end of the verbal abuse.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Aug '09 16:16
    Originally posted by NimzovichLarsen
    "Town hall meetings have recently become the scene of angry, loud, and ignorant people intent on spreading Lies and Misinformation."

    Remind you of Cindy Sheehan? No one seemed to complain when Bush was on the recieving end of the verbal abuse.
    Funny you should mention her. Watching clips from those shouting protestors did remind me very much of Cindy Sheehan. I thought I saw her in one of the shouting crowds, but it must have been my imagination (either than or she'll go to any rally where they scream and yell).
  6. 12 Aug '09 16:20
    Originally posted by sh76
    Funny you should mention her. Watching clips from those shouting protestors did remind me very much of Cindy Sheehan. I thought I saw her in one of the shouting crowds, but it must have been my imagination (either than or she'll go to any rally where they scream and yell).
    maybe so...it's just funny that Bush recieved more criticism, abuse, ripping, etc than probably any president in history, but some loud people at town hall meetings is already to much for the left to handle.. I don't think Obama cares, so why do his RHP mouth pieces care?
  7. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    12 Aug '09 17:05
    Originally posted by sh76
    You're wrong about 1 and 3. Perhaps you didn't see my other thread, but the business about it being an "option" is misleading. HR 3200 calls for the phase out of all non-complying private insurance. As it is, existing private insurance can only exist as long as the insurance company makes no changes in the policy. Only then is it grandfathered in. No new privat ...[text shortened]... that. In fact, don't be surprised if your healthcare costs go up in the aggregate.
    Well...if the Canadian system is so poor, why don't we see lots of Canadians protesting against it? They seem pretty happy with it on the whole, in fact much happier than most Americans are with there system.
  8. 12 Aug '09 17:15
    Originally posted by bill718
    Well...if the Canadian system is so poor, why don't we see lots of Canadians protesting against it? They seem pretty happy with it on the whole, in fact much happier than most Americans are with there system.
    well seeing how Obama said the canadian system won't work here I would say that their opinion is irrelevant. Also, you can't compare other countries to the U.S. as we are so different than other countries (size, demographics, immigrants, etc).
  9. 12 Aug '09 17:21 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by bill718
    Town hall meetings have recently become the scene of angry, loud, and ignorant people intent on spreading Lies and Misinformation.

    Lie Number 1. Big Government is taking over healthcare in America! Anyone who has bothered to read this proposal will see it's being introduced as an option...not a requirement. This option is designed for people who do not qu y a much larger percentage of Americans than the fortune 500 group and do the right thing.
    Lie #1 Obama is not for universal health care.
    Truth "The time has come for universal health care in America," Obama said at a conference of Families USA, a health care advocacy group.

    "I am absolutely determined that by the end of the first term of the next president, we should have universal health care in this country," the Illinois senator said.

    Lie #2 “We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors,” the president said.
    At another point he said: “Well, first of all, another myth that we’ve been hearing about is this notion that somehow we’re going to be cutting your Medicare benefits. We are not. AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare, okay?”
    Truth The AARP hasn’t endorsed any plan yet.

    The country’s largest advocacy group for Americans over 50 issued a statement after the event saying, “While the President was correct that AARP will not endorse a health care reform bill that would reduce Medicare benefits, indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate.”

    stand by, more to come
  10. 12 Aug '09 17:25
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Lie #1 Obama is not for universal health care.
    [b]Truth
    "The time has come for universal health care in America," Obama said at a conference of Families USA, a health care advocacy group.

    "I am absolutely determined that by the end of the first term of the next president, we should have universal health care in this country," the Illinois sen ...[text shortened]... lls currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate.”[/b]

    stand by, more to come[/b]
    Can you explain why exactly you are against universal health care?
  11. 12 Aug '09 17:30
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Can you explain why exactly you are against universal health care?
    I'm against it because it cannot be paid for, will lower health care quality, there is no way to account for the huge number of illegal immigrants in such a program, and our government is not capable of running it (or anything else).
  12. 12 Aug '09 17:42
    Originally posted by NimzovichLarsen
    I'm against it because it cannot be paid for, will lower health care quality, there is no way to account for the huge number of illegal immigrants in such a program, and our government is not capable of running it (or anything else).
    it cannot be paid for

    if you stop spending an extraordinary amount of money on defense, you'll be able to afford it.

    will lower health care quality

    not if you have it already.
    as for those who don't, its better to have that than nothing.

    there is no way to account for the huge number of illegal immigrants in such a program

    you just have to hope Obama has the balls to chase them back to the border.

    not capable of running it (or anything else).

    how do you know? they haven't even tried yet.
  13. 12 Aug '09 17:44
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    [b]it cannot be paid for

    if you stop spending an extraordinary amount of money on defense, you'll be able to afford it.

    will lower health care quality

    not if you have it already.
    as for those who don't, its better to have that than nothing.

    there is no way to account for the huge number of illegal immigrants in such a progra ...[text shortened]... apable of running it (or anything else).

    how do you know? they haven't even tried yet.[/b]
    the government can't run anything, why would h.c. be different.

    And you can't stop defense spending, that's absurd--which is why Obama won't do it.
  14. 12 Aug '09 17:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Can you explain why exactly you are against universal health care?
    NimsovitchLarsen pretty much summed it up.
  15. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Aug '09 17:53
    Originally posted by bill718
    Well...if the Canadian system is so poor, why don't we see lots of Canadians protesting against it? They seem pretty happy with it on the whole, in fact much happier than most Americans are with there system.
    Did I say anything about the Canadian system being poor?

    No, I pointed out inaccuracies in your OP. I did not say the Canadian system is poor.

    Incidentally, there are plenty of Canadians who dislike their system. Maybe, on the whole, they're satisfied, maybe on the whole, they think it could be improved. I don't know.

    Either way, let's keep our eye on the ball here. The Canadian system does allow the government to dictate care (indirectly, perhaps, but still does). Saying that Obamacare would not put healthcare decisions in the hands of the government is incorrect.