@Mott-The-Hoople saidI know plenty of gay people and trans people who are way more respectable than some Republicans. All because of the heinous things the Republicans support. They hate people just for being who they are.
Queer and trans is not a respectable trait…as you say, respect is earned.
@Zahlanzi saidYou're not looking at reality; your worldview has clouded your judgment.
"Twenty posts is a very vague thing without specifics. Come on, you say MAGA as if it's on its face everyone should know it’s evil, and I am asking what it is that you are saying when you say MAGA. Outside of Make America Great Again, what about it is bad? What is it about MAGA that doesn't increase freedom, doesn't increase happiness, and doesn't harm anyone?"
I have be ...[text shortened]... point of view about MAGA now than when you answered."
When i said MAGA was evil, was i stuttering?
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@KellyJay saidI have given some thought to what I might do if I believed all the things you (profess to) believe about God, and I have come to the conclusion that Calvinism is the only really strictly consistent attitude to take towards an omniscient God who already knew, when He created life, the universe, and everything, whether you would go to heaven or hell, and there's nothing you can do about it. And, yes, I know HE knows you have freewill, but He also knows how you will choose, and He still knows whether you are going to heaven or hell, no matter how you choose and He can just send you there as a gift to the devil, as he allowed the devil to murder Job's family, out of sheer incomprehensibleness.
You think there is nothing after this life, but I believe there is a judgment with eternal consequences. What would you do if you were in my situation?
@moonbus saidThat is complex, but I am not a Calvinist; I can absolutely see how you and many I know think that way. It puts God under human limitations so that you are, or are not, a Christian by the decree of God, and nothing you can say or do matters towards that end. I know when I wrote my book, I made the characters in it the way I wanted them, some good, some bad. God is not limited as we are; with Him, He can give us free will and honor it!
I have given some thought to what I might do if I believed all the things you (profess to) believe about God, and I have come to the conclusion that Calvinism is the only really strictly consistent attitude to take towards an omniscient God who already knew, when He created life, the universe, and everything, whether you would go to heaven or hell, and there's nothing you can ...[text shortened]... ift to the devil, as he allowed the devil to murder Job's family, out of sheer incomprehensibleness.
While being omniscient, He can know what it would take to give and honor the choices we have before us. With that, we can say yes to love, or no, and the fallout of those choices plays out before us.
God cannot murder; He gives and takes away life, so every life created has a time it will die. We live in a world where our choices affect not only ourselves, but also others, such as ending a life. If we can choose to end a life because we think our lives will be better if they were not around, we act to end a life. Maybe they have something we want; we could end their lives to get it. We can also choose to love others and give our lives for them in deeds or actually give up our lives for them.. We own our choices, Satan owns his, as he killed Job’s kids; we own ours if we kill others.
If you look at what God did as He walked among us, Jesus honored the choices of those who killed Him; He let them do their worst, and He just used that to redeem the rest of us in the process.
So, can you point to good people who do no wrong, or bad people who do not do good?
@Zahlanzi saidPick a priority, personally, the only thing I know for sure I’d do in that circumstance is remove a body part from the male that did it to her, transition him against his will. Rape is a tough one; her wishes and the life of a child that had nothing to do with their father’s crime. I’ve heard stories where both choices were made, keep the baby because it was a life, and not.
I see you still haven't commented on forcing a little girl pregnant with her rapist to carry the pregnancy to term
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@KellyJay saidYou are quite right that I am not answering your question. I am rejecting your question. Your question is equivalent to the question: Have you stopped beating your wives? Your question contains presuppositions which I do not accept. If I answer yes to the question have you stopped beating your wives, then I passively confirm your presuppositions a) that I have multiple wives and b) that I used to beat them, though I no longer do. Or, if I answer no, then I confirm that I have multiple wives, that I used to beat them and still do. But I reject the entire question, because of the prepositions contained in it. And that is why I refuse to answer your question about people being flawed or not flawed.
You are very vague and still have not answered my questions. Do you think there are only a select few bad people, or perhaps a select few who are good?
If you do not accept all behavior without distinction? So those same rules apply to everyone. Exactly what rules do you think everyone can be guilty of if they break them?
You are complaining about how I view the hum ...[text shortened]... l can be done in the name of good, all of that because of the nature of man. You don’t accept that?
I do not view view people through the lens of flawed or not flawed, bad or good.
I see people as having character traits, some of which are agreeable, and some of which are disagreeable. It is precisely the disagreeable ones which present us challenges, hurdles to be mastered; facing challenges and learning to master hurdles is what makes people and societies resilient. Resilience is what makes us able to face change and adapt to a changing world.
Now just don’t leap to absurd and unwarranted conclusions, such as that I think it’s perfectly OK for people to kill other people or to have sex with children. Of course I don’t accept any such nonsense is that.
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@moonbus saidThat is all fine and good, so you don’t view them as flawed or unflawed, but can you acknowledge that they are all capable of doing both good and bad as they desire?
You are quite right that I am not answering your question. I am rejecting your question. Your question is equivalent to the question: Have you stopped beating your wives? Your question contains presuppositions which I do not accept. If I answer yes to the question have you stopped beating your wives, then I passively confirm your presuppositions a) that I have multiple wives ...[text shortened]... kill other people or to have sex with children. Of course I don’t accept any such nonsense is that.
It is not even a binary choice since there are so many ways you can engage in this. It is not like, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" You can say I think they are all good, I don’t care what they do! They are bad, I don't care what they do! You could say the good ones only do good. Here is a list of names! The bad ones only do bad. Here is a list of names.
Your problem is that you cannot even entertain the question; to do so would force you into admitting people are flawed, so you stick your head in the ground and say I am not answering!
You cannot be honest and engage with the question and apply an ounce of honest reasoning to it, as soon as you do, you will have to admit your wrong. So you stick your head in the ground, say I'm wrong, but cannot give a cause. You don't mind saying I'm wrong, that you do all day long.
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@KellyJay saidYou have spent five pages arguing that everyone is faulty. Your argument ultimately comes down to this: even if you never told a lie, you are capable of telling a lie, therefore you are a liar. This is equivalent to arguing that you are capable of getting sick, therefore you are sickness. What a disagreeable character trait this is, always finding fault with people yada yada yada. Now show us that you can be resilient and apologize to Kmax87 for telling him an untruth on page one.
That is all fine and good, so you don’t view them as flawed or unflawed, but can you acknowledge that they are all capable of doing both good and bad as they desire?
It is not even a binary choice since there are so many ways you can engage in this. It is not like, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" You can say I think they are all good, I don’t care what they do! The ...[text shortened]... say I'm wrong, but cannot give a cause. You don't mind saying I'm wrong, that you do all day long.
@moonbus saidThis is you all over; you cannot answer a simple question, but you have zero issues declaring others have faults.
You have spent five pages arguing that everyone is faulty. Your argument ultimately comes down to this: even if you never told a lie, you are capable of telling a lie, therefore you are a liar. This is equivalent to arguing that you are capable of getting sick, therefore you are sickness. What a disagreeable character trait this is, always finding fault with people yada yada ...[text shortened]... ow show us that you can be resilient and apologize to Kmax87 for telling him an untruth on page one.
@moonbus saidAnswer my question about information that comes from chaos, from certainty, or from uncertainty? You seem to have a selective memory, much like your willingness to engage in a normal conversation where you refuse to answer a simple question.
@KellyJay
Are all your posts filled with .... fault finding, is that the totally [sic] of you?
You shot an own-goal in this thread, and you don't even see it. Oh, the irony. The double irony.
@moonbus saidYou should spend a little time looking at what was said. I didn’t accuse anyone of anything; I asked a question. You accuse, and you do it by getting facts wrong.
@KellyJay
Are all your posts filled with .... fault finding, is that the totally [sic] of you?
You shot an own-goal in this thread, and you don't even see it. Oh, the irony. The double irony.
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@moonbus saidI don’t believe you can justify good or evil without God. You can give reasons for your prespective, you can talk about cultures. But both peoples and cultures, can move into intolerant rages, or violence, picture Germany during WW2. On top of that recent polling suggesting many people feel violence is acceptable as a solution for disagreements
Do you believe it is possible for there to be good in a universe without God?
For something to be good it must be good for everyone not just a select few.