@metal-brain saidRussia and the US both have approximately 5000 nuclear warheads. Europe (France and the UK) has a few hundred nuclear warheads.
Well said.
"2) Russia will not tolerate deploying nuclear warheads and strategic missiles at its borders. "
Agreed. This is also the reason I balk at the MAD (mutually assured destruction) believers. If the west was not seriously considering a nuclear war, why is the west deploying nuclear warheads and strategic missiles at Russia's borders?
The answer is simple. ...[text shortened]... he lived to be 92 years old. Don't believe the MAD rhetoric. Most people can survive a nuclear war.
It is assumed that those countries that do not have nuclear weapons will not be attacked with nuclear weapons.
NATO, however, has its "nuclear sharing" program. Russia, in turn, because of that and other reasons as well, interprets the US as its main adversary and interprets that NATO = the US. From the Russian viewpoint, it is sound.
NATO talks that every country has the freedom to decide itself and to join NATO. But NATO has completely neglected that it means that the US has a right to deploy its missiles and nuclear weapons near Russian borders.
This neglection led to Ukrainain war.
@kevcvs57 saidSo fight Russia down to the last Ukrainian?
Well perhaps it could retaliate by placing nuclear weapons right in NATO’s border in say Kaliningrad, oh no hang on it’s been doing that for years🙄
Russia will just have to tolerate fair play we are not going to give it any choice. We’ve tried the hands off step back approach and the Ukrainians are paying a terrible price but Russia will burn before the Estonians and Poles pay a similar one.
You care so much about human life.
They would have a better chance getting covid.
@sonhouse said"So it is ok for Russia to have literally THOUSANDS of nukes but cannot stand the idea of anyone else doing so."
@EintaluJ
So it is ok for Russia to have literally THOUSANDS of nukes but cannot stand the idea of anyone else doing so.
Putin got his job by accusing corruption probe investigators investigating Yeltsin of being pedophiles, a typical dictator tactic used many times over by Putin, who is by any standard a barbarian from the tenth century running a country with thousands ...[text shortened]... by Putin.
Putin is SUCH an altruistic GOD, with only the wellbeing of his people FOR SURE, right?
This is demagoguery. Russia and the US both have approximately 5000 nuclear warheads. Europe has (France and the UK) approximately a few hundred nuclear warheads.
It is assumed that countries without nuclear weapons will not be attacked using nuclear weapons.
It is also assumed that Iran cannot create nuclear weapons (Europe, Israel and the US are hindering it). Nevertheless, it is assumed that everyone can freely join NATO.
But NATO has its nuclear sharing program. That means that, in effect, NATO can deploy nuclear missiles near Russian borders (NATO-s decision from 2021). In turn, during the Cuba crisis, it became clear that the US does not tolerate Soviet nuclear weapons in Cuba. And, recently, at the end of 2021, the US gave a warning to Russia that if Russia deployed its strategic weapons in Cuba or Latin America, it would have grave consequences.
From these facts, it follows that despite its propaganda and rhetoric, it is the US and NATO who think that they can do everything and Russia cannot do anything.
But, perhaps, this math is too complicated to your simplistic mind.
@metal-brain saidNo! Support Ukraine until the last Russian leaves and stops killing their children and raping their women.
So fight Russia down to the last Ukrainian?
You care so much about human life.
They would have a better chance getting covid.
All Russia has to do to stop the war is simply stop making war on its smaller neighbour.
Scum like you pretending that there are two sides to this story are what’s prolonging the war. This isn’t two equals squabbling over a disputed piece of land or precious water. This is one country invading another country and violating its citizens in the most atrocious manner. If Russia loses it still has Russia, if Ukraine loses there will be no Ukraine so you and all the other Putin enablers here can ‘go forth and multiply’ with their female parents.
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@eintaluj saidYour doing that thing again, your completely neglecting the fact that it’s Russia that has nuclear war heads stationed on the borders of several countries and can reach any target in the world.
Russia and the US both have approximately 5000 nuclear warheads. Europe (France and the UK) has a few hundred nuclear warheads.
It is assumed that those countries that do not have nuclear weapons will not be attacked with nuclear weapons.
NATO, however, has its "nuclear sharing" program. Russia, in turn, because of that and other reasons as well, interprets the US as ...[text shortened]... loy its missiles and nuclear weapons near Russian borders.
This neglection led to Ukrainain war.
It’s Russia that’s making dark threats about unpredictable outcomes and Putin is behaving like someone who wouldn’t think twice about using nuclear weapons on the civilian population of a non nuclear adversary.
I think we’ll just keep our nukes front and centre for a while yet.
@kevcvs57 saidRussia and the US both have approximately 5000 nuclear warheads. Europe (France and the UK) has a few hundred nuclear warheads.
Your doing that thing again, your completely neglecting the fact that it’s Russia that has nuclear war heads stationed on the borders of several countries and can reach any target in the world.
It’s Russia that’s making dark threats about unpredictable outcomes and Putin is behaving like someone who wouldn’t think twice about using nuclear weapons on the civilian population of a non nuclear adversary.
I think we’ll just keep our nukes front and centre for a while yet.
It is assumed that those countries that do not have nuclear weapons will not be attacked with nuclear weapons.
NATO, however, has its "nuclear sharing" program. Russia, in turn, because of that and other reasons as well, interprets the US as ...[text shortened]... loy its missiles and nuclear weapons near Russian borders.
This neglection led to Ukrainain war.
@eintaluj saidJust out of curiosity ........
Russia and the US both have approximately 5000 nuclear warheads. Europe (France and the UK) has a few hundred nuclear warheads.
It is assumed that those countries that do not have nuclear weapons will not be attacked with nuclear weapons.
NATO, however, has its "nuclear sharing" program. Russia, in turn, because of that and other reasons as well, interprets the US as loy its missiles and nuclear weapons near Russian borders.
This neglection led to Ukrainain war.
How many Nuclear warheads (American) are there in Poland right now ?
I don't know, just asking.
@eintaluj saidResponding to a post from the first page......
In 2021, NATO declared its decision that it might deploy nuclear weapons in Eastern Europe.
At the end of 2021, Russia made its security proposals to the US/NATO.
Russian main points were:
1) NATO's expansion at Russian borders is a strategic threat to Russia and must be stopped.
2) Russia will not tolerate deploying nuclear warheads and strategic missiles at i ...[text shortened]... e that we are moving towards WW3 and the leading forces who are triggering it are the US and the UK.
Point 1
My thoughts on NATO expansion a strategic threat to Russia.
What constitutes a strategic threat to Russia ? Have any NATO forces ever entered Russia ? Bombed Russia ?
I would say that in Putin's mind, the strategic threat to Russia is stopping Russia's ability to re-draw to map to match the 1980's Soviet Union.
That's the threat.
Point 2
Please refer to my previous post in this thread.
Point 3
Ukraine should not enter NATO. Nor should Finland or Sweden.
My question.....who is the aggressor here ?
And if anything comes out of this conflict, joining NATO sounds pretty good to countries I listed above.
There seems to be some support of Russia amongst some. In particular the hard right.
Wonder why ?? Russia is greater than 80% Caucasian.
Anti-immigration types like La Pen are now trying to minimize that kind of information in front of her election in France.
Channels like FOX are spending less time on Ukraine war and more on Critical Race Theory. Tucker Carlson yapping defending banning math books in Florida.
Nice world we're in.
@mghrn55 saidNone yet though:
Just out of curiosity ........
How many Nuclear warheads (American) are there in Poland right now ?
I don't know, just asking.
"The United States also has an estimated 100 B-61 nuclear gravity bombs that are forward-deployed at six NATO bases in five European countries: Aviano and Ghedi in Italy; Büchel in Germany; Incirlik in Turkey; Kleine Brogel in Belgium; and Volkel in the Netherlands."
https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20also%20has,and%20Volkel%20in%20the%20Netherlands.
And there's this:
"The fence is the outer perimeter, guarded by Polish soldiers, of a highly sensitive U.S. military installation, expected to be operational this year, which Washington insists will help defend Europe and the United States from ballistic missiles fired by rogue states like Iran.
But for President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, the military base in Poland, and another in Romania, are evidence of what he sees as the threat posed by NATO’s eastward expansion — and part of his justification for his military encirclement of Ukraine. The Pentagon describes the two sites as defensive and unrelated to Russia, but the Kremlin believes they could be used to shoot down Russian rockets or to fire offensive cruise missiles at Moscow."
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/world/europe/poland-missile-base-russia-ukraine.html
NATO, of course, reserves the "right" to deploy what ever weapons it desires in any NATO country.
And the US in 2019 officially cancelled the INF treaty, which banned " all of their nuclear and conventional ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with ranges of 500 to 5,500 kilometers."https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/INFtreaty
When you look at these things in a comprehensive manner, you can see why Russia has become alarmed by NATO's measures in Eastern Europe.
@eintaluj said"It is assumed that those countries that do not have nuclear weapons will not be attacked with nuclear weapons. "
Russia and the US both have approximately 5000 nuclear warheads. Europe (France and the UK) has a few hundred nuclear warheads.
It is assumed that those countries that do not have nuclear weapons will not be attacked with nuclear weapons.
NATO, however, has its "nuclear sharing" program. Russia, in turn, because of that and other reasons as well, interprets the US as ...[text shortened]... loy its missiles and nuclear weapons near Russian borders.
This neglection led to Ukrainain war.
Who assumes that? Not that it matters for every human on the planet if 5000 nukes go off at once but who is that idiotic to believe only the nuclear powers will get bombed?
"This neglection led to Ukrainain war."
Not the fact that Putin thought he will finish the invasion in a week and install a puppet regime? Not because he is paranoid and erratic and the cronies around him don't have the balls to tell him the truth? Not because he pines for restoring the USSR and he felt he is owed the Ukraine?
It's NATO's fault, right?
@kevcvs57 saidRussia's terms for ending the war are reasonable. Zelenskyy said Ukraine will not join NATO anyway. Why won't Zelenskyy end the war?
No! Support Ukraine until the last Russian leaves and stops killing their children and raping their women.
All Russia has to do to stop the war is simply stop making war on its smaller neighbour.
Scum like you pretending that there are two sides to this story are what’s prolonging the war. This isn’t two equals squabbling over a disputed piece of land or precious water. Th ...[text shortened]... so you and all the other Putin enablers here can ‘go forth and multiply’ with their female parents.
Is it because he is a puppet dictator who is there to see his people die in war to drain Russia of money and weaken them? Why does Zelenskyy want war so badly?
@Metal-Brain
Russian terms are reasonable, you mean like just give over the entire south to Russia and everyone is happy? You really swallowed the Putin koolaid.
He is not going to stop at Ukraine, when will you get THAT through your silicon brain?
@sonhouse saidThe separatist states don't want to be part of Ukraine. They voted for being part of Russia. They have the right to self determination.
@Metal-Brain
Russian terms are reasonable, you mean like just give over the entire south to Russia and everyone is happy? You really swallowed the Putin koolaid.
He is not going to stop at Ukraine, when will you get THAT through your silicon brain?
What do you have against democracy?
"He is not going to stop at Ukraine"
When did you become psychic? Can you give me the winning lottery numbers in advance too?
@metal-brain saidAre the russians still demanding the demilitarization of Ukraine? Yes, totally reasonable.
Russia's terms for ending the war are reasonable. Zelenskyy said Ukraine will not join NATO anyway. Why won't Zelenskyy end the war?
Is it because he is a puppet dictator who is there to see his people die in war to drain Russia of money and weaken them? Why does Zelenskyy want war so badly?
Are you still stuck on the idea this is about Ukraine joining NATO?