" assault Rape survivors say they are being stigmatised for not wearing masks"

@no1marauder said
Ignoring all medical advice and the overwhelming evidence is hardly a way to limit the spread of a deadly epidemic.

This Forum has been filled since early in the epidemic with these types of post minimizing the dangers of COVID and expressing strong opposition to the advice of public health experts for dubious reasons. Not even a death toll approaching one million seem ...[text shortened]... how many sick, hospitalized and dead are you willing to endure to grant exemptions for mask wearing?

Can you elaborate on this 'overwhelming evidence' and the ignoring of all medical advice?

(At one point the medical advice was that the wearing of face masks offered minimal protection against the virus).

Those who can wear face masks 'should.' Those who can't, for valid medical reasons, 'should' be exempt from doing so and not be expected to be perpetual prisoners in their own homes.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Can you elaborate on this 'overwhelming evidence' and the ignoring of all medical advice?

(At one point the medical advice was that the wearing of face masks offered minimal protection against the virus).

Those who can wear face masks 'should.' Those who can't, for valid medical reasons, 'should' be exempt from doing so and not be expected to be perpetual prisoners in their own homes.

Here's what WHO says:

"WHO advises that governments should encourage the general public to wear masks where there is widespread transmission and physical distancing is difficult, such as on public transport, in shops or in other confined or crowded environments."

Tedros added that the new guidance was updated based on evolving evidence.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/face-mask-coronavirus-who-recommendations-bn/index.html

From the CDC:

Americans are increasingly adopting the use of cloth face masks to slow the spread of COVID-19, and the latest science may convince even more to do so.

In an editorial published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), CDC reviewed the latest science and affirms that cloth face coverings are a critical tool in the fight against COVID-19 that could reduce the spread of the disease, particularly when used universally within communities. There is increasing evidence that cloth face coverings help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.

“We are not defenseless against COVID-19,” said CDC Director Dr. Robert R. Redfield. “Cloth face coverings are one of the most powerful weapons we have to slow and stop the spread of the virus – particularly when used universally within a community setting. All Americans have a responsibility to protect themselves, their families, and their communities.”

This review included two case studies out today, one from JAMA, showing that adherence to universal masking policies reduced SARS-CoV-2 transmission within a Boston hospital system, and one from CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), showing that wearing a mask prevented the spread of infection from two hair stylists to their customers in Missouri.

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0714-americans-to-wear-masks.html

The exemptions you, Kev and Duchy are insisting on based on skepticism of recommendations by public health experts will literally get people killed, a fact you all seem unwilling and/or incapable of admitting.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

"No1Marauder likes to pretend that his opponents in any dispute are a small minority."
That post is about what the WHO recommends (because ghosts can't google). It's not a comment on just who is agreeing with him on RHP.


"No1Marauder neglected to add DeepThought and Jimmac to the
list of Ghost of a Duke, Kevcvs57, and me."
Jimmac is borderline toying with the idea that he shouldn't be forced to wear a mask simply because it's too hard. He doesn't give a damn about people with actual medical problems.

"Indeed, as far as I can tell, we outnumber No1Marauder, Vivify, and Zahlanzi in this thread."
Doesn't mean anything, just statistics from small numbers. Quite a lot of other people may have simply declined to argue the inane subject that some people should be allowed to endanger others because they can't possibly be expected to stay at home or ask a friend to do their groceries for them.

"My main point (which No1Marauder keeps ignoring) is that
the UK government allows some medical exemptions from wearing masks."
And a Florida sheriff just issued a no-mask policy for his deputies simply because. Governments can do stupid stuff. What's your point.

"Evidently, most British people regard that as a reasonable and humane policy."
So? We're listening to the popular opinion now, not the experts?

"Of course, No1Marauder fiercely advocates some things of which
few British people would approve."
Yeh, i call foul on that one. You have no proof of that. I want to see a survey where brits would be ok with a few people being allowed to not wear masks and endanger everyone who is following the rules.

@zahlanzi said

That post is about what the WHO recommends (because ghosts can't google). It's not a comment on just who is agreeing with him on RHP.

Why do I need to Google when I have a perfectly functioning memory? -In the UK, early medical advice from the chief advisor was that wearing masks was of minimal benefit and was likely to lead to self-contamination. The idea that the science has since changed to overwhelming support the exact opposite of this is a nonsense.

Masks should be worn where possible, but they are not a magic bullet and people should be exempt from wearing them if they have a valid reason not to.

Should the government be allowed to force you to wear a seatbelt?

Do you think that if the seat belt is restricting, you should have a letter explaining why you’re not wearing it?

What about spitting on the ground during a TB outbreak?

What about motorcycle helmets? Are people who have problems with face masks allowed to ride their Hondas without helmets?

Yeah. Wearing a face mask sucks.
Sneezing in someone’s face and sending them to hospital for 3 weeks sucks as well.

The WHO has never stated wearing masks is ineffective. They’ve consistantly said it doesn’t prevent you from contracting the disease.
They’ve consistantly said it can help prevent you give it to someone else.

In the begin they opposed wearing them because there was a mask shortage. And anything is better than nothing for frontline workers. Pure logistics.

As I’ve stated before, this is a difficult argument.
Basically, short term: you don’t
Wanna wear a mask in the mask-wearing areas... don’t go to the mask-wearing areas. Simple. Don’t be a Karin.

Long term is far more interesting. And there is no ready made solution.
Public health vs individual discomfort vs politicization vs trauma victims.

Great stuff. However, I reckon the amount of genuine trauma victims (can’t wear a mask for psychological reasons) is very low.
And it’s difficult to make policy based upon examples of 1 in a million.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Why do I need to Google when I have a perfectly functioning memory? -In the UK, early medical advice from the chief advisor was that wearing masks was of minimal benefit and was likely to lead to self-contamination. The idea that the science has since changed to overwhelming support the exact opposite of this is a nonsense.

Masks should be worn where possible, but ...[text shortened]... not a magic bullet and people should be exempt from wearing them if they have a valid reason not to.

"Why do I need to Google when I have a perfectly functioning memory? -In the UK, early medical advice from the chief advisor was that wearing masks was of minimal benefit and was likely to lead to self-contamination."
Yep, when a pandemic unlike any hits us, it's always best to follow months old advice.
It;'s not like our understanding evolves or anything?

"The idea that the science has since changed to overwhelming support the exact opposite of this is a nonsense."
In your expert opinion.
And yes, it did just that.


"Masks should be worn where possible, but they are not a magic bullet and people should be exempt from wearing them if they have a valid reason not to."
Yep, keep repeating that without know what you're talking about. Not about the reason we're supposed to wear masks, not about how Covid is spread, not about anything really. Just your personal belief on the matter.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

There are doctors prescribing homeopathy.

That;s precisely the reason why were against that. Anyone can get exemptions from a doctor on just about anything. By the time you investigate if an exemption is even warranted, that person could have infected dozens of people.

For the nth time, the mask doesn't protect you, it protects other. It lowers the risk of you spreading the disease which other people, masked or not masked, would be contracting.
You have no right to put others at risk, no matter what happened to you, no matter how difficult it would be for you to wear it.

Not wearing a mask makes you selfish, no matter the reasons.

@shavixmir said
Should the government be allowed to force you to wear a seatbelt?

Do you think that if the seat belt is restricting, you should have a letter explaining why you’re not wearing it?

What about spitting on the ground during a TB outbreak?

What about motorcycle helmets? Are people who have problems with face masks allowed to ride their Hondas without helmets?

Yeah. ...[text shortened]... ical reasons) is very low.
And it’s difficult to make policy based upon examples of 1 in a million.

It's not 1 in a million Shav. I wish it was.

And I agree, the real issue is the 'long term' requirement of people to be virtual prisoners at home if physically or mentally unable to wear a mask. And these are people who are probably already socially isolated.

@zahlanzi said

Yep, keep repeating that without know what you're talking about. Not about the reason we're supposed to wear masks, not about how Covid is spread, not about anything really. Just your personal belief on the matter.

I work in mental health. I have visited 3 people already this week who can not wear a mask. (One who is severely asthmatic, but the other two for reasons relating to their mental health. PTSD/Anxiety).

My primary role with these clients is social inclusion, all three isolated and at risk of neglect and relapse. The critical need for these people to be supported in interacting with the outside world is not a matter of my personal beliefs. I have a professional duty of care to ensure their mental health is maintained, and as a caring community we all share in that duty of care. To expect them to remain indoors for the long term would be a failure in this regard and the reason any civilized society recognizes exemptions.

@zahlanzi said

Not wearing a mask makes you selfish, no matter the reasons.

I think this is where you are evidencing your own lack of understanding and empathy for people who 'cannot' wear a mask. (To really quite a laughable extent).

To label them as selfish really is profoundly naive.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I work in mental health. I have visited 3 people already this week who can not wear a mask. (One who is severely asthmatic, but the other two for reasons relating to their mental health. PTSD/Anxiety).

My primary role with these clients is social inclusion, all three isolated and at risk of neglect and relapse. The critical need for these people to be supported in ...[text shortened]... g term would be a failure in this regard and the reason any civilized society recognizes exemptions.

"I work in mental health. I have visited 3 people already this week who can not wear a mask. (One who is severely asthmatic, but the other two for reasons relating to their mental health. PTSD/Anxiety). "
Yes, yes, quite sad. Let's have them endanger the health of everyone else, to make them feel happy.

"My primary role with these clients is social inclusion, all three isolated and at risk of neglect and relapse. "
Quite sad. We will try and include them twice as much when the pandemic that's been going on ends.

"The critical need for these people to be supported in interacting with the outside world is not a matter of my personal beliefs"
Other people have a critical need to not catch a deadly disease and is really not a matter of personal beliefs.

"I have a professional duty of care to ensure their mental health is maintained, and as a caring community we all share in that duty of care."
Well said. I am glad you agree that as a caring community we should not put in danger the lives of everyone so that a few people feel included.

"To expect them to remain indoors for the long term would be a failure in this regard and the reason any civilized society recognizes exemptions."
Nope. Just a reasonable sacrifice we ask some of us so that most of us don't fukin die.

How are you so thick that you still don't get it? A few people not getting the social interaction they desire (none of us are getting as much social contact as we want, stop whining) is a very small price to pay for the safety of everyone. What do you think i am doing, having parties at the supermarket? I am getting my groceries, i am working from home, i watch netflix in my home. I go out when it is necessary. Yes i have it better than others. Others who can't work from home. Others who need the small wage grocery stores are paying. Others who work in hospitals who are already at great risk.

Please, go to a nurse or a doctor, who just came off a who knows how many hours shift and is trying to buy some cheese in a supermarket. Go tell them your patient with anxiety has to take a walk through that same supermarket and he will be doing it without a mask, because he is super anxious about it.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think this is where you are evidencing your own lack of understanding and empathy for people who 'cannot' wear a mask. (To really quite a laughable extent).

To label them as selfish really is profoundly naive.

"I think this is where you are evidencing your own lack of understanding and empathy for people who 'cannot' wear a mask. (To really quite a laughable extent).

To label them as selfish really is profoundly naive."
Really? Not where they cough in the face of people who are following the rules and would pretty much like to not get a deadly disease? Are you showing empathy towards those people?



Getting a deadly disease trumps being stuck at home. Not wearing a mask makes you selfish. You lack of understanding and empathy to quite a laughable extent.