" assault Rape survivors say they are being stigmatised for not wearing masks"

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Might I suggest that the sensation of having hot tar in the base of one's lungs as the disease progresses into the slow torture of drowning in one's own secretions tends to focus the mind upon dying helplessly and alone.

Be wise. Wear the mask.

The virus is unconcerned with comorbidities and passed trauma.

I wish you well. 🙂

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"It's inflammatory hysteria to compare a traumatized rape victim (like Georgina Fallows) to a person with 'homicidal urges'."
Why? Both cases are putting others at risk through no fault of theirs. It just goes to show that the needs of the many sometimes take precedence over the needs of the few.
I sympathize with their needs, i totally agree it's not their fault, but i don't want either to put my granma in danger, can you grok that?

"Some people apparently fail to comprehend that one may
readily take precautions when meeting someone without a mask."
And one (you) may fail to comprehend that at I at least have already said that wearing a mask should apply to supermarkets, workplaces, wherever it's crowded. I never said those persons should be under house arrest, just not go to a store and infect everyone. They can drive, go to a park (while keeping distance), meet with friends (if they agree), etc.

"Such as maintaining a 'social distance' of two metres, perhaps more."
Difficult to impossible to do in a supermarket, in a closed space and it has always been the case that respecting just one of the rules put in place is not enough. We should wash our hands, wear masks, maintain social distance, not touch our eyes, etc. All of the above. It's not a "choose whatever of these suits you" kind of deal.


"I would add that I have a job now where I am required to
meet many members of the public, who often are not wearing masks."
And you should refuse to serve either one of them if they don't wear masks.

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Like i said before, medical experts advise all should wear masks. I didn't hear of any official statement adding "unless, like, it's super hard and you don't wanna and you can get a doctor saying it's fine to spread your germs wherever"

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"My employer requires me to serve everyone, masked or not,
unless I believe they are likely to be violent toward me.
(People are not angry at me personally, but some are at my employer. )"
And that is wrong

"Sometimes unmasked people intentionally violate
social distancing by approaching me closely."
And that is wrong. Exactly why we need harsh fines for such people.

Here we are stopped at the entrance of a supermarket if we don't have masks on. Businesses are checked regularly to see if employees have masks on. Disinfectants are provided on site. We call out people not wearing them. It's not perfect, there are people without masks here as well, there are people who don't wear them correctly. Every bit helps though.

@zahlanzi said
That friend makes a choice to meet up with them without a mask. The people who shop at that supermarket didn't make that choice. They aren't to blame or be put at risk.

I cannot go for a walk on my own in an isolated area without a mask, unless I want to risk a $200.00 fine.
How far can they steal my rights to not wear a mask becomes a secondary debate does it not.
I understand shops and public transport etc but who am I ? I am not allowed to choose what is right for myself, After all wearing a mask, walking on my own, away from anyone, is for the common good.

@zahlanzi said
"Yes I know what herd immunity is, it means if enough members of the herd have immunity it effectively protects the whole herd but 100% of the herd are not required to have immunity, that’s the point of herd immunity."
And it doesn't apply to covid.


"“ If someone says "I want to burn down your house" and you say "Nah, i don't want you to do that" the compromise isn't ...[text shortened]... people who shop at that supermarket didn't make that choice. They aren't to blame or be put at risk.

Well in essence then we just disagree on what sacrifices we’re prepared to inflict on members of society to keep other members of society safe,
My preference would be to shield those most likely to die or suffer serious consequences from covid whilst mandating mask wearing for those that can until there’s a vaccine or we attain herd immunity.
We cannot keep covid from being transmitted even with the most stringent mask laws it’s better to support and shield those at most risk from it.

@kevcvs57 said
Well in essence then we just disagree on what sacrifices we’re prepared to inflict on members of society to keep other members of society safe,
My preference would be to shield those most likely to die or suffer serious consequences from covid whilst mandating mask wearing for those that can until there’s a vaccine or we attain herd immunity.
We cannot keep covid from bein ...[text shortened]... even with the most stringent mask laws it’s better to support and shield those at most risk from it.

"Well in essence then we just disagree on what sacrifices we’re prepared to inflict on members of society to keep other members of society safe,"
Yep. Not being able to shop or having to work from home is more acceptable to me than exposing someone to a deadly disease.

"My preference would be to shield those most likely to die or suffer serious consequences from covid"
How do you plan on doing that? 😀 Should THEY be confined at home because some people can't or won't wear masks?

"whilst mandating mask wearing for those that can until there’s a vaccine or we attain herd immunity."
mandating mask for those that can still leaves people capable of infecting others.

"We cannot keep covid from being transmitted even with the most stringent mask laws it’s better to support and shield those at most risk from it."
I ask again, since masks aren't 100% effective, we might as well let people who convince doctors that it's too inconvenient for them to wear them go around spreading the disease? How is that supporting and shielding those at risk from it?

@jimmac said
I cannot go for a walk on my own in an isolated area without a mask, unless I want to risk a $200.00 fine.
How far can they steal my rights to not wear a mask becomes a secondary debate does it not.
I understand shops and public transport etc but who am I ? I am not allowed to choose what is right for myself, After all wearing a mask, walking on my own, away from anyone, is for the common good.

"I cannot go for a walk on my own in an isolated area without a mask, unless I want to risk a $200.00 fine. "
Lobby for that law to be repealed. In my country i can drive without a mask, i can go to a park without a mask.(as long as i maintain social distancing) We are talking about not wearing masks in public and crowded areas.

" How far can they steal my rights to not wear a mask becomes a secondary debate does it not. "
You have no right to not wear a mask.

" I understand shops and public transport etc but who am I ? I am not allowed to choose what is right for myself"
You can chose that. As long as it doesn't endanger other people. You can't drive 150km/h because you feel that is what's right for you.

@kevcvs57 said
Well in essence then we just disagree on what sacrifices we’re prepared to inflict on members of society to keep other members of society safe,
My preference would be to shield those most likely to die or suffer serious consequences from covid whilst mandating mask wearing for those that can until there’s a vaccine or we attain herd immunity.
We cannot keep covid from bein ...[text shortened]... even with the most stringent mask laws it’s better to support and shield those at most risk from it.

How many people would you be prepared to catch COVID because of your preference that exemptions be granted for Reasons A, B, C etc.? How many would you be prepared to be hospitalized for your policy preference? How many would you be prepared to die?

Unless you are ready to answer those questions, your argument is sophomoric.

I can't believe this thread is still going on. What is there to debate? It only takes one person to cause an outbreak that can result in untold deaths. This is stupidly obvious.

One person doesn't have the right to put others at risk of a deadly pandemic. End of story.

@vivify said
I can't believe this thread is still going on. What is there to debate? It only takes one person to cause an outbreak that can result in untold deaths. This is stupidly obvious.

One person doesn't have the right to put others at risk of a deadly pandemic. End of story.

i will probably get bored soon. It's only so many ways i can state "someone staying at home is preferable to someone dying"

@zahlanzi said
"I cannot go for a walk on my own in an isolated area without a mask, unless I want to risk a $200.00 fine. "
Lobby for that law to be repealed. In my country i can drive without a mask, i can go to a park without a mask.(as long as i maintain social distancing) We are talking about not wearing masks in public and crowded areas.

" How far can they steal my rights to not ...[text shortened]... oesn't endanger other people. You can't drive 150km/h because you feel that is what's right for you.

There is no chance, no way, non at all that my lobbying will help, the only protests that are allowed are for victim groups. And as stated I have no rights. A state of emergency has been declared, that means they have full control over you.
Your second statement seems to contradict your 1st.
"Lobby for that law to be repealed"
1st/ We are talking about not wearing masks in public and crowded areas.
And then you say/ You have no right to not wear a mask.
So, it becomes you that will decide where and when it is ok for me to wear the mask, not our premiere.
See, it gets a bit confusing, you say you decide for me, the Premiere says its up to him, I say its up to me.

@zahlanzi said
i will probably get bored soon. It's only so many ways i can state "someone staying at home is preferable to someone dying"

Without going to to much trouble, 2 quick stats re Australia from 2018. There are 800,000 aged care residents at any one time in Aussie. 1,200,000 Aussies use age care per year. I heard recently that the average life expectancy in aged care is 8 months.
We are destroying the world economies here, Suicides are through the roof. In Aussie they are 5 times the covid death rate, depression is at alarming levels, medical procedures are NOT being done at the same rate, Preventative procedures have all but stopped, the list goes on and on and on. But lets all ignore all that shall we.
Having said that, that is more relevant to lockdown than masks, but!
The aftermath of this is going to be long and hard and will kill a lot more than most politicians will admit. The deaths will go on for years.
To save a few lives of ( predominantly ) people that want to die anyway, as their last days are being spend in isolated agony, at the cost of far more young peoples lives is inhumane.
Understand this, I suspect, the majority of those that you are desperate to save want to die because of what they are doing.
I do not pretend to know the answer but then, I do not believe you do either.