Atlanta School Falsify test scores

Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
OK two that taught 5 and 7 years in "inner cities" good.
Ever have a problem teaching kids that were too stupid or recalcitrant to develop basic reading and math skills?

I taught math for seven years. Basically my job was to teach kids who were unskilled and unmotivated. I enjoyed it and was more skilled at than many of my collegues but the truth is there are limits in what you can do when you have people with substandard skills and substandard motivation.

Originally posted by quackquack
I taught math for seven years. Basically my job was to teach kids who were unskilled and unmotivated. I enjoyed it and was more skilled at than many of my collegues but the truth is there are limits in what you can do when you have people with substandard skills and substandard motivation.

Were you told that if the class of "unskilled/unmotivated" students didn't pass a state standardized test that you would be fired at the end of the year?

Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
Were you told that if the class of "unskilled/unmotivated" students didn't pass a state standardized test that you would be fired at the end of the year?

I was told in no uncertain terms in a meeting with the whole summer school faculty once in summer school that if I any teacher did not pass enough kids they would have to extend the day the school day next year and that they would find a way to give me an unsatisfactory and I would never be allowed to work a persession job again.
I was also told during my first year if I failed more than half of the kids (and I taught classes where everyone had failed the class last term) I would be called down to the principals office and "you don't want that because you don't have tenure"

Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
Were you told that if the class of "unskilled/unmotivated" students didn't pass a state standardized test that you would be fired at the end of the year?

No.

Originally posted by FMF
No.

Well then I guess you'd have no reason to fudge on the kid's tests would you?
Nice of you to recommend jail time for those who do.

Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
Well then I guess you'd have no reason to fudge on the kid's tests would you?
Nice of you to recommend jail time for those who do.

I never got a whiff of fraud going on in those days; it's a while ago. I feel little tolerance for it. Position of trust, beyond approach, judged by a higher standard and all that. Although I am respectful of quackquack's comments and perspectives above. I'm aware of insidious falsification here in Indonesia but it's in decline, it seems.

Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
Well then I guess you'd have no reason to fudge on the kid's tests would you?
Nice of you to recommend jail time for those who do.

I have never done armed robbery but I recommend jail time for it.

Despite my situation, I never falsified results and I always told those who asked they should not either. I understand (but don't sympathize with) the temptation to give into pressures to change grades.

So let's say you're a teacher in Compton, California, and these are your students:



YouTube


And for some reason, they just don't pass the state proficiency tests LOLOL and you are going to be fired if they don't?

Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
So let's say you're a teacher in Compton, California, and these are your students:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfdC_0C2E6o


And for some reason, they just don't pass the state proficiency tests LOLOL and you are going to be fired if they don't?

I don't have to watch the video. I don't falsify results; I wouldn't even if I could get Madoff results. Perhaps I never needed a job that badly that I would commit a crime or my family would not be starving and homeless. But for me, the analysis is simple: it is just stupid to falsify results you gain very little and the risk is too great.

Originally posted by quackquack
I don't have to watch the video. I don't falsify results; I wouldn't even if I could get Madoff results. Perhaps I never needed a job that badly that I would commit a crime or my family would not be starving and homeless. But for me, the analysis is simple: it is just stupid to falsify results you gain very little and the risk is too great.

Very noble of you.
Now watch the video anyway and ask yourself what you think happens in The Real World in school districts like this?
My guess is Atlanta is just the tip of the iceberg, they just got caught because their results were too good to be believed.

Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
Very noble of you.
Now watch the video anyway and ask yourself what you think happens in The Real World in school districts like this?
My guess is Atlanta is just the tip of the iceberg, they just got caught because their results were too good to be believed.

I don't think anyone believes that this is the only place that ever falsified results.

Originally posted by quackquack
I don't think anyone believes that this is the only place that ever falsified results.

There are some honest districts out there.
In my city this year the two largest high schools failed standards and are being rewarded for their honesty, the entire staff from principal on down are being replaced, all the teachers have to reapply at other schools and hope they get picked up.
Don't blame the students, blame the teachers is the philosophy of No Child Left Behind.

Don't blame the students, blame the teachers is the philosophy of No Child Left Behind.[/b]

It is the philosophy of a lot of people who don't realize the primary reason student do or don't do well is the student themselves.

I do believe from experience, given any group of students, (even those unmotivated and unskilled) that certain people can get better results than others. I'd argue that the people who get better results within a given set of perameters is a better teacher. It is really tough to measure this.

Even within a given school, time of day, distribution of students, previous teachers can have a huge effect on expected results.

Originally posted by quackquack
It is the philosophy of a lot of people who don't realize the primary reason student do or don't do well is the student themselves.

.

EXCELLENT !
Thank You.
Now we just need to convince the government of that.

Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
EXCELLENT !
Thank You.
Now we just need to convince the government of that.

I think in some fairness to the government they are trying to solve a different problem. The governmwnt wants its resources to be used well and if a school gets no results for decades perhaps it is time to try something else or expect the same bad results. Shutting down a school and re-opening a new school with a staff is trying something different. Not the solution I'd suggest but blindly keeping the status quo is probably no ones preferred method either.