@averagejoe1 saidNot only have I answered such tripe multiple times but I did so ELEVEN MONTHS AGO:
I asked first . Like I just said, you will not answer this question because your premise is false. Everyone, Marauder has said over the weeks that we are incorrect. When we say the government is going to forgive a debt, that is money that was otherwise supposed to go into our treasury to repay the money that they took out. Pretty common sense, don’t you think. But marau ...[text shortened]... to hear the case? Either Marauder is right, or everybody else is right. Which side do you fall on? ?
"Forgoing a modest amount of future revenue from debt payments of working and middle class people to the government is likely to have societal benefits well in excess of such overall small payments (less than .5% of Federal government receipts)."
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/student-loan-forgiveness.194474/page-20
A portion of a debt is being discharged that is owed to government. The People have consented to this by their votes in 2020.
"It is like a tax cut; some future revenue, maybe $20-30 billion a year, is being forgoed."
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/student-loan-forgiveness.194474/page-19
I cannot help it if you have the attention span of a gnat and can't remember what I said (or more likely are being deliberately dishonest).
"
@no1marauder saidThey borrowed billions from 'somewhere'. We can stipulate to that? The lenders, ''whomever', will not get that money put back where it was before it was borrowed. Your post is BS, but we are all aware at how adept at you are with BS. The old legal eagle, Nexis Lexis, billions of link-choices, fabricated for unknowing innocents like Suzianne. Written to confuse. But you simply can't get that by others. You just can't. It is BS.
Not only have I answered such tripe multiple times but I did so ELEVEN MONTHS AGO:
"Forgoing a modest amount of future revenue from debt payments of working and middle class people to the government is likely to have societal benefits well in excess of such overall small payments (less than .5% of Federal government receipts)."
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debat ...[text shortened]... span of a gnat and can't remember what I said (or more likely are being deliberately dishonest).
"
In any event, that is not the question, is it. The question is, assuming you are correct, (what a laugh), why are people up in arms about it and going to the Supreme court???????????????????? What are they upset about? WHY don't you answer that question? I warned you a few posts back you better quit while you can, but here you are, in over your head.
@AverageJoe1
WHY, WHY, won't you answer this question....why there was such a ruckus about it , when you say it would not affect taxpayers like me, and like Suzianne? Did you ask Sue what she thinks about her money paying the debts of soon-to-be-rich college grads? What was her answer? Libs don't answer, though. Did she??
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@averagejoe1 saidHow many times does your idiot question have to be answered? What the People thought in 2020 is apparently that Joe Biden's idea to forgive some student loan debt was a good idea or they wouldn't have voted for him.
@AverageJoe1
WHY, WHY, won't you answer this question....why there was such a ruckus about it , when you say it would not affect taxpayers like me, and like Suzianne? Did you ask Sue what she thinks about her money paying the debts of soon-to-be-rich college grads? What was her answer? Libs don't answer, though. Did she??
If you can't understand the program, which is a partial forbearance of debt held by the government, go back and read the thread from last year - it's all explained there.
And I can't read the minds of imbecile right wingers like yourself, so why you guys think such nonsense and get upset because you are told to is beyond my expertise. Obviously the uneducated like yourself are resentful of the sons and daughters of working and middle class people who were able to better themselves because of government programs which made it possible for them to get an advanced education, but why that is so is something you should probably discuss with a therapist, not on an online forum.
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@no1marauder saidWe see this over and over from you No1. They may have said we like way sleepy sniffs kids, gets lost on stage and talks gibberish, but when people take a loan, when they make a commitment they have to see it through. Well 3 out of 4 ain't bad, we'll vote for sleepy.
How many times does your idiot question have to be answered? What the People thought in 2020 is apparently that Joe Biden's idea to forgive some student loan debt was a good idea or they wouldn't have voted for him.
If you can't understand the program, which is a partial forbearance of debt held by the government, go back and read the thread from last year - it's all e ...[text shortened]... ut why that is so is something you should probably discuss with a therapist, not on an online forum.
You see the way that works, people don't vote single issue, joe didn't have to say 'We're letting people off repaying the same loan thousands of others have honored' and that was enough to get him in.
In most countries, like the US, there are only two main parties on the two main party seesaw. The motivator that drives people to the polling booth is not to let a bunch of free loader payment dodgers off their commitment, it's to get the other mob out of goobermint.
The two main parties know this, they're going to do a term or two then put up bit of a show about staying in power, knowing that gen pop are over them and they'll let the other guys have their go for a term or two knowing it's only a matter of time the seesaw is going to tilt their way regardless of candidate and policies, all they have to do is: Not be them.
Nowhere is it direct democracy with people voting on single issues, you'd do well to correct this often repeated error of yours. People are starting to see through it.
Edit: "How many times..." ;^)
@no1marauder saidWhy the ruckus over it, then? Marauder? This is the most monumental example of your avoiding answering a REAL simple question. If you asked me why I'm in a ruckus about liberals accepting government money, I would answer it.
How many times does your idiot question have to be answered? What the People thought in 2020 is apparently that Joe Biden's idea to forgive some student loan debt was a good idea or they wouldn't have voted for him.
If you can't understand the program, which is a partial forbearance of debt held by the government, go back and read the thread from last year - it's all e ...[text shortened]... ut why that is so is something you should probably discuss with a therapist, not on an online forum.
I will ask you later, maybe you have gone out.
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@wajoma saidRight wingers like yourself oppose the idea of any type of democracy since it interferes with what you desire i.e. the untrammeled power of the elite you grovel to.
We see this over and over from you No1. They may have said we like way sleepy sniffs kids, gets lost on stage and talks gibberish, but when people take a loan, when they make a commitment they have to see it through. Well 3 out of 4 ain't bad, we'll vote for sleepy.
You see the way that works, people don't vote single issue, joe didn't have to say 'We're letting people off ...[text shortened]... en repeated error of yours. People are starting to see through it.
Edit: "How many times..." ;^)
But elections have consequences in a democratic Republic like the US. Joe Biden's election in 2020 made it likely some kind of student loan relief would be put in place since that was a stated part of his campaign platform (surely a politician elected should at least try to make good on his campaign promises). Given those facts, Joe's constant whining about whether Guy A is happy about it is misplaced; Guy A had his chance in November 2020 to oppose the policy.
Foregiveness of part of a loan obligation happens millions of times a year in the US. There is nothing unique about it, the simplistic ideas that you express are not reflexive of modern economic reality (they never are). The government here forbearing some of the debt owed by middle and working class individuals has similar effects to a tax cut albeit a targeted one. Whether that policy is wise should be determined by its real world effects not some moralistic platitudes.
@no1marauder saidDid everyone get this....as an answer to my question, I mean?
Right wingers like yourself oppose the idea of any type of democracy since it interferes with what you desire i.e. the untrammeled power of the elite you grovel to.
But elections have consequences in a democratic Republic like the US. Joe Biden's election in 2020 made it likely some kind of student loan relief would be put in place since that was a stated part of his c ...[text shortened]... r that policy is wise should be determined by its real world effects not some moralistic platitudes.
@averagejoe1 saidIt was in response to Wajoma's post; I've already responded to yours.
Did everyone get this....as an answer to my question, I mean?
@no1marauder saidNot a right winger, not a republican, not an American.
Right wingers like yourself oppose the idea of any type of democracy since it interferes with what you desire i.e. the untrammeled power of the elite you grovel to.
But elections have consequences in a democratic Republic like the US. Joe Biden's election in 2020 made it likely some kind of student loan relief would be put in place since that was a stated part of his c ...[text shortened]... r that policy is wise should be determined by its real world effects not some moralistic platitudes.
My post was neutral and dimocrats can easily change the flavor if their feelings are hurt. The point stands and you know it, no one voted for biden based on student loans, and no one voted the opposition based on student loans. It's a common tactic of yours cherry picking a single issue then claiming people voted for it. The average voter sees it as a choice between two parties and this applies to NZ, Aus, the US and other countries. The motivator is get the other guys out. 90% of the posts here (and this includes you) are primarily 'get the other guy out' then secondarily choose some topic or other as a tool.
No1 said:
"Guy A had his chance in November 2020 to oppose the policy."
Guy A could have invested every cent of savings, mortgaged his house and business five times over, made some mean posts online and not have made the slightest dint, because student loans are not what got biden in.
@no1marauder
Sorry my error. But it could have just as easily been an answer to my question, which is no answer at all.
No one buys your BS that there is not one consequence of forgiving the debts of the loser college grads. Again, everyone, if there wre no consequence, th4 media wojudl not be FULL of the blowback about it. It even went to the SCOTUS.
Marauder will not answer the question. Get tired of my repeats if you like, but allow me to be tired of this non-artful dodger.
@wajoma saidOpposition to democracy is a standard philosophical position on the Right.
Not a right winger, not a republican, not an American.
My post was neutral and dimocrats can easily change the flavor if their feelings are hurt. The point stands and you know it, no one voted for biden based on student loans, and no one voted the opposition based on student loans. It's a common tactic of yours cherry picking a single issue then claiming people voted fo ...[text shortened]... posts online and not have made the slightest dint, because student loans are not what got biden in.
People don't just flip a coin when they decide to vote - they make their decisions primarily based on the policy preferences of the candidates. Your musings are without any empiricial basis.
@averagejoe1 saidWho said there were "no consequences"? I've already discussed them with, IMO, the benefits of the proposed policy far outweighing the relatively small cost in foregone revenue.
@no1marauder
Sorry my error. But it could have just as easily been an answer to my question, which is no answer at all.
No one buys your BS that there is not one consequence of forgiving the debts of the loser college grads. Again, everyone, if there wre no consequence, th4 media wojudl not be FULL of the blowback about it. It even went to the SCOTUS.
Maraude ...[text shortened]... question. Get tired of my repeats if you like, but allow me to be tired of this non-artful dodger.
The two main consequences would be:
1. 43 million working and middle class Americans would have their debts reduced by $20,000 to $30,000 increasing their net worth and making them more likely to spend and invest to the economic benefit of our society.
2. The US government would see its tax revenue reduced by about 0.5% for 5 years.
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@no1marauder saidEmpirical Evidence:
Opposition to democracy is a standard philosophical position on the Right.
People don't just flip a coin when they decide to vote - they make their decisions primarily based on the policy preferences of the candidates. Your musings are without any empiricial basis.
90% of the message board is not about what the authors favorite candidate has to offer, it's putting the knife into the opposition.
BTW. opposition to democracy is also a characteristic of the left.
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@wajoma saidDo I have to tell the story of how the terms "Right" and "Left" became defined in political discourse again? Here's a brief but handy guide:
Empirical Evidence:
90% of the message board is not about what the authors favorite candidate has to offer, it's putting the knife into the opposition.
BTW. opposition to democracy is also a characteristic of the left.
"The modern usage of the political terms left and right comes from the French Revolution of 1789 when supporters of the king stood to the president’s right, and supporters of the revolution to his left."
"The citizens who wanted democracy, individual liberty, and social equality stood to the left <—— of the President ——> and, the supporters of the Aristocracy, Monarchy, and King ( “the few ” ) who wanted order, tradition, social hierarchy, and authority stood to the right."
http://factmyth.com/the-origin-of-the-political-terms-left-and-right/