228d
@AverageJoe1
You want believable truths? Trump is a criminal, that has already been proven. Now we are just waiting for actual criminal conviction, you know, like felonies. Plural.
@sonhouse saidBOO! Get lost Sonhouse, Wildgrass and I are having a clinic to resolve an issue that has been around for sometime, which should certainly enlighten our forum members.
@AverageJoe1
You want believable truths? Trump is a criminal, that has already been proven. Now we are just waiting for actual criminal conviction, you know, like felonies. Plural.
227d
@wildgrass saidAnd also shrinks companies.
I think my last post was pretty darn clear and already answered your question.
A higher minimum wage shrinks government.
@sh76 saidI mean, sure, this is a good argument if you're a big government kind of guy.
And also shrinks companies.
I'm not. Amazon is one of the largest companies the world has ever seen. They have $3 trillion market cap and more than $5 billion profit every month.
This company asks the US taxpayer to buy their employee's groceries? As you say, so they can be bigger?
Why don't we have government pay for all Amazon employees salaries eh? That company would be huge.
227d
1 edit
@sh76 saidThe government needs to solve the problem, because the government created it.
Housing prices are very sensitive to marginal demand. A small decrease in demand will lead to significantly lower prices. Travel to other states from CA can cost almost nothing. You can go from Los Angeles to Phoenix by Flixbus for $39. My only point was that "people can't move because they can't afford to travel" isn't true.
If millennials are struggling to buy homes, it's b ...[text shortened]... s they won't hire janitors.
The government just isn't going to solve this problem for you, sorry.
We can't have an honest capitalist system if government (through taxation) is making up the difference in earnings between what they say is the poverty line and what they say is the minimum wage.
227d
@averagejoe1 saidThoughtful post.
Then let us dissect and study the efficacy of this definition. If a guy needs 40,000 to live for a year, he can make that with a wage of $21.05/hr. (1900 hours). Yes, that wage to him is a living wage. If a man has 3 kids, he needs $60k, which would be$31.57/hr., his living wage.
We then agree on that definition of a living wage. Of course , we are not saying or stati ...[text shortened]... needs of ALL wage earners, if possible.
Your def above does not accomplish that, I don’t think.
We can easily simplify to a single earner with no dependents. These are the folks working full time in the Amazon warehouse and coming home from their shift they stop at the local grocery store to redeem their snap benefits.
Thousands of them, just at Amazon, but the same is happening at many other companies who don't pay their employees what it costs to live. This system creates larger and larger government dependence, at both the individual and corporate levels.
Raising the minimum wage solves many of these systemic problems. Of course there are other solutions as well, none of which are considered politically feasible with the current crop of do-nothing Republicans.
227d
@wildgrass saidSo you want a minimum wage specifically for Amazon that doesn't apply to Joe's Pizza Shop?
I mean, sure, this is a good argument if you're a big government kind of guy.
I'm not. Amazon is one of the largest companies the world has ever seen. They have $3 trillion market cap and more than $5 billion profit every month.
This company asks the US taxpayer to buy their employee's groceries? As you say, so they can be bigger?
Why don't we have government pay for all Amazon employees salaries eh? That company would be huge.
227d
1 edit
@sh76 saidOf course there are many possible ways to change course. Raising the minimum wage on a select group of mega companies might be a good start?
So you want a minimum wage specifically for Amazon that doesn't apply to Joe's Pizza Shop?
One idea, the Bernie Sanders proposal from a few years back would charge businesses with more than 500 employees for whatever their full time workers draw from federal safety net funds. He says this is $150 billion in government spending that'd be clawed back from big business who fail to support their full time employees.
Of course this proposal can't be implemented, blocked by GOP.
What's the conservative solution? I've no idea anymore because they don't have any policies. They just complain. They don't seem to think big govt is a problem unless it's tweets and toilets.
@wildgrass saidIt's the goobermint programs making it possible for employers to pay less.
The government needs to solve the problem, because the government created it.
We can't have an honest capitalist system if government (through taxation) is making up the difference in earnings between what they say is the poverty line and what they say is the minimum wage.
End the assistance programs and people would stop working for low wages, it's the goobermint that caused the problem and you want to fix the goobermint aberrations with more goobermint.
Apart from this there are people claiming assistance that don't need it, literally ripping the system off and being offered an incentive to be dishonest. Again the solution is as obvious as a 4x2 to the face, get the goobermint out of the deal, everyone they tweak a knob there are a dozen harmful unintended consequences.
And then there's the hypocrisy, oh the hypocrisy is never far away with the control freaks, the hypocrisy of the min wage advocates is their homes are filled with products produced by people in way below the US min wage.
227d
2 edits
@wajoma said
It's the goobermint programs making it possible for employers to pay less.
End the assistance programs and people would stop working for low wages, it's the goobermint that caused the problem and you want to fix the goobermint aberrations with more goobermint.
Apart from this there are people claiming assistance that don't need it, literally ripping the system off and b ...[text shortened]... e advocates is their homes are filled with products produced by people in way below the US min wage.
you want to fix the goobermint aberrations with more goobermint...
No. I do not. Raising the minimum wage, at least to match the poverty line, decreases the size of government, and this can be quantified. Few would disagree. At least you admit the goobermint caused the problem.
End the assistance programs and people would stop working for low wages...
I can tell you're a deep thinker. Good, you identified another potential solution. But this one is not supported in any serious way by any politician who actually exists. A pipe dream. A fairy tale. It's a solution for people who don't want to actually solve problems.
Meanwhile your "solution" to do away with the social safety net (that isn't even proposed by the rightest of right wing politicians) stands as an impediment to actually doing something to shrink government.
226d
1 edit
@averagejoe1 saidI do find it laughable that ‘govt started prob, govt can fix it.” Jesus.
Then let us dissect and study the efficacy of this definition. If a guy needs 40,000 to live for a year, he can make that with a wage of $21.05/hr. (1900 hours). Yes, that wage to him is a living wage. If a man has 3 kids, he needs $60k, which would be$31.57/hr., his living wage.
We then agree on that definition of a living wage. Of course , we are not saying or stati ...[text shortened]... needs of ALL wage earners, if possible.
Your def above does not accomplish that, I don’t think.
WGrass, you are far afield. How bout ‘ for our audience and the debate judges, dissect this paragraph.? It is so simple , so logical, can you take it to its logical end?
2 different men (1 single, 1, 3kid family man) work at the same job. Tell us how , at the end of the day, they both make a living wage. Living wage is what the thread is about. It is not about your SHouse-like treatment of the posed issue. It is one simple premise.
Hey,,,,WGrass,,,does it mention government? Can u libs respond without government? SHouse writes somewhere about American Indians today. What in the hell.
Please?
226d
1 edit
@averagejoe1 saidJoe - no offense, I already answered it. Some of your replies in this thread, which were posted earlier in the day, had some logic to them but this is gibberish. Maybe I should wait until you sober up to reply?
I do find it laughable that ‘govt started prob, govt can fix it.” Jesus.
WGrass, you are far afield. How bout ‘ for our audience and the debate judges, dissect this paragraph.? It is so simple , so logical, can you take it to its logical end?
2 different men (1 single, 1, 3kid family man) work at the same job. Tell us how , at the end of the day, they both make ...[text shortened]... hout government? SHouse writes somewhere about American Indians today. What in the hell.
Please?
The government sets two numbers: one is poverty and the other is minimum wage. If we align the two, then the government shrinks overnight.
226d
@wildgrass saidBut. you are the on one trhing to explain BS. When you fellers come up with this haribrained reasoning, the first reaction of a capitalist (free market, free enterprise, no govt control other than OSHA and FDA, etc) is that if his ideas are so correct, why is it not done? Wildgrass for President!
Joe - no offense, I already answered it. Some of your replies in this thread, which were posted earlier in the day, had some logic to them but this is gibberish. Maybe I should wait until you sober up to reply?
The government sets two numbers: one is poverty and the other is minimum wage. If we align the two, then the government shrinks overnight.
Note that this thread is to have an outrageous minimum wage, causing the price of Kellogs cereal to certainly double, etc, a given. But you blow right over that.
If you think you have 'answered it', or if you think I do gibberish, how bout you get us back on track and convince us that teh cost of goods would not skyrocket. Please do not foul up your response with reference to government. They have nothing to do with the implementation of the market after they dictate this wage increase. If the tell me $50/hr for my donut shop, they would not be involved with my management thereof, would they wildgrass.
You will not answer this question. This is where i say 'back at 'ya".
226d
1 edit
@averagejoe1 saidI don’t mean to be tedious, but could you really send me some link or some credible article, which defines, as you say, living wage. I don’t think there is one out there
I don’t mean to be tedious, but could you really send me some link or some credible article, which defines, as you say, living wage. I don’t think there is one out there, frankly, for the very reason of the example I gave above. Two guys working the same paying job to have different needs than the other…, that is, money to live on for those needs. How would you pay a livi ...[text shortened]... at needs more money. Could you please offer a reasonable explanation for what you are trying to say?
Dear Joe - I spent 45 seconds on the internet and found 3 sites defining the living wage for each state, all backed up by ample economic data. Why do people here have to spoon feed information to you. Can't you look up anything yourself? 🙄
226d
When i finally looked it up, it turned out I was way underestimating Amazon's profits. They are approaching net profits of $5 billion per day, and growing, elbowing out more and more competitors as they reinvest dividends in monopoly-esque infrastructure.
We the taxpayer buy the groceries for this companies' employees.