@soothfast saidSo, for 250 years, we have been on the wrong track, and the concept of profit has been ill-advised.
The problem with capitalism is that, so far as can be seen from the historical record, it needs to expand indefinitely in order to work. It cannot achieve a dynamic equilibrium within reasonable external bounds, but rather devolves into crisis. Maybe it will learn to do so when the realities of a finite planet really set in (as they are doing now), but it remains to be se ...[text shortened]... challenge of averting an absolutely unprecedented climate catastrophe.
Nationalism also sucks.
Have not these profits been taxed so that people, some on this Forum, can be supported by the government? Where else would money come from if it was not earned in the form of profit? You fellers have really gone overboard for the last few months. Your posts are air.
ANd you posts Definitely do not close.
@averagejoe1 saidNeither I nor anyone else on this site has said everyone should be equal. Everyone should have equal opportunity for economic success.
In a Nutshell: You will fail because your dream is that everyone be equal ''...at the end of the day.' as our VPresident said.
Everyone cannot be equal, Phranny. So, since that is impossible, the dream of you socialists and Marxists will fail.
Thus, you will fail.
@phranny saidThe world knows our slogan, The Land of Opportunity. You say, then, that there is NO opportunity for everyone?
Neither I nor anyone else on this site has said everyone should be equal. Everyone should have equal opportunity for economic success.
Oh, you must be saying that if I live near a lake but Pierre lives 100 miles from a lake, he does not have the opportunity to catch lake fish to feed his family like I do. So, it would follow that our government should provide him fish? Jesus. Just what are you saying anyway? Mayve you define opportunity differently than would a normal person?
You fellers sure leave your posts a'hangin.
@soothfast saidSoothfast says our 250 years of capitalsim has evolved, or is evolving, or devolving, into crisis.
The problem with capitalism is that, so far as can be seen from the historical record, it needs to expand indefinitely in order to work. It cannot achieve a dynamic equilibrium within reasonable external bounds, but rather devolves into crisis. Maybe it will learn to do so when the realities of a finite planet really set in (as they are doing now), but it remains to be se ...[text shortened]... challenge of averting an absolutely unprecedented climate catastrophe.
Nationalism also sucks.
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@averagejoe1 saidThis was predicted by the inventors of capitalism.
Soothfast says our 250 years of capitalsim has evolved, or is evolving, or devolving, into crisis.
Wealth eventually becomes a bigger earner than hard work and innovation, giving fewer and fewer people access to it over long periods of time.
@phranny saidWell I have seen it here before, esp those espousing marxism, but suffice to say that our VP said a year ago that 'at the end of the day, everyone should end up in the same place'... her words.
Neither I nor anyone else on this site has said everyone should be equal. Everyone should have equal opportunity for economic success.
She meant what she said, it is what her discussion was about.
So I can give you no better example than VP Camala.
@wildgrass saidI don't know what you mean, or if it is germane to this discussion. And capitalism is what it is, what diff does it make what someone predicted. Someone else that day probably objected and said he predicted that it would make people independent and self-reliant. Frankly, I am sure someone said that. Forget his name.
This was predicted by the inventors of capitalism.
@averagejoe1 saidIf the possession of wealth creates more money than hard work and creativity, capitalism suffers over time. That's the deal.
I don't know what you mean, or if it is germane to this discussion. And capitalism is what it is, what diff does it make what someone predicted. Someone else that day probably objected and said he predicted that it would make people independent and self-reliant. Frankly, I am sure someone said that. Forget his name.
Compare the interest on $10 million to 5 people's salaries at Starbucks. Who earns more?
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@wildgrass saidHere we go again. Starbuck starting jobs, from whence you move to higher paying jobs and so forth. Then you drive a UPS truck, at $170K/year. Good stuff.
If the possession of wealth creates more money than hard work and creativity, capitalism suffers over time. That's the deal.
Compare the interest on $10 million to 5 people's salaries at Starbucks. Who earns more?
So, move along....are you saying that the UPS driver should make as much as the wealthy people, no matter their past and how they got there? Everhone equal at the end of the day? (Kamala said that). Are you Marxist?
What if the UPS driver starts his own trucking company and makes $10M. Could you comment on that, because that does not square with your concepts. Average guy becomes millionaire. Hmmmmmm
Should a person make $10M while his neighbor continues to work for 40 years at Starbucks? Jesus.
@averagejoe1 saidThats a load of baloney he posted there. As for the person who posted about equal opportunity, capitalism has opportunity for all if you are capable of taking advantage of it. If you cannot then that is nobodys fault but your own.
Soothfast says our 250 years of capitalsim has evolved, or is evolving, or devolving, into crisis.
@averagejoe1 saidThe wealthy person isn't making any money. It's the wealth itself.
Here we go again. Starbuck starting jobs, from whence you move to higher paying jobs and so forth. Then you drive a UPS truck, at $170K/year. Good stuff.
So, move along....are you saying that the UPS driver should make as much as the wealthy people, no matter their past and how they got there? Everhone equal at the end of the day? (Kamala said that). Are you Ma ...[text shortened]... Should a person make $10M while his neighbor continues to work for 40 years at Starbucks? Jesus.
Wealth doesn't drive trucks.
@rajk999 saidIn my mind when discussing such matters.....is Choice. Further, it appears that when someone makes a wrong choice, that there should be an automatic societal process which makes him whole again? Why? Is it someone else's fault that he finds himself in a predicament? Compassion is the basic answer, but he is not owed anything by society. Libs think otherwise. Witness borrowing money to buy a car or go to college (tuition!!!) and have someone else pay it back because it was a bad idea!!?!??
Thats a load of baloney he posted there. As for the person who posted about equal opportunity, capitalism has opportunity for all if you are capable of taking advantage of it. If you cannot then that is nobodys fault but your own.
I could scream! 😲
@wildgrass saidAre you Master Po on Kung Fu?!?
The wealthy person isn't making any money. It's the wealth itself.
Wealth doesn't drive trucks.
What in the world?
You need Kev and Vivify BAD!!!!
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@wildgrass saidMoney is not wealth, money is a tool that we use to measure wealth/value. Wealthy people tend to be good at creating wealth that's how they get there. Some arrive at it by dumb luck, generally it doesn't last. There's a well known trend regarding family Co's, the old guy starts it, the next generation builds on that, the 3rd generation squanders it.
The wealthy person isn't making any money. It's the wealth itself.
Wealth doesn't drive trucks.
The truck itself is wealth.
Here's a nice piece on what money is and how it works:
https://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2002/08/franciscos-money-speech/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CTo%20trade%20by%20means%20of,you%20his%20effort%20in%20return.
It's also an invitation for ATY to talk about pirates, motors, satirical (?) humour (?) stories and everything but the content of the speech.
@shavixmir said I think you’ll find that you are the ignorant one.
“What have the Romans ever done for us?”
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Whoa whoa whoa...
you're moving the goalposts, probably because my answer about what the Greeks had done, hit the nail on the head.
Now, admit you were wrong.,