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  1. S. Korea
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    23 Feb '21 23:57
    An excellent article from William Yang documenting the efforts of the Chinese Communist Party to destroy liberty and democracy in Hong Kong:

    On Monday, Xia Bao-long, the director of China’s Hong Kong and Macau Affairs Office, gave a speech that highlighted the importance of ensuring Hong Kong’s democratic development doesn’t deviate from the principle of “letting patriots run Hong Kong.” He said the most important and urgent task now is to “strengthen the relevant mechanisms,” and these efforts need to be led by the central government.
    “The most vital and pressing task to enforce rules by patriots is to improve the relevant systems, particularly the relevant electoral system,” Xia said in the speech. “Being patriotic means loving the People’s Republic of China.”

    He also said authorities must close loopholes that allow “anti-China troublemakers” into politics. “Improving the relevant electoral system must be led by the central government,” he added.

    Xia laid out the criteria for what makes a “real patriot,” including love for the People’s Republic of China, its constitution, and the Communist Party of China. He said members of the judiciary should also be patriots, which could be viewed as a warning to those who worry that Hong Kong’s judicial independence might come under pressure from Beijing.


    The only patriots of China appear to be loyalists of the Chinese Communist Party. This is because there is no democratic heritage in Communist China, just a one-party system with a very specific agenda that masquerades as a democracy.

    While the details are not yet clear, this analysis has been provided:

    “Beijing will exclude political forces regarded as non-patriotic through electoral reform,” Choy said. “They will be excluded from participating in elections and public institutions.”
    Even though Xia emphasized in the speech that “One Country Two Systems” is still the foundation of how China manages Hong Kong, Choy thinks that Beijing definitely puts a lot more emphasis on the “one country” than the “two systems.”
    As for what kind of people will be deemed as “non-patriots,” Choy thinks politicians who have clear anti-CCP or pro-Hong Kong independence stances or those who are accused of colluding with foreign power could be easily considered as “non-patriots.”


    https://williamyang-35700.medium.com/top-chinese-official-revealed-plans-to-overhaul-hong-kongs-electoral-system-cb645636d08a

    Good luck to our friends in Hong Kong & everyone who wants true democracy but suffers in the Sinosphere.
  2. Subscribermoonbus
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    24 Feb '21 00:05
    @Philokalia

    Single-party states never long tolerate dissent.

    Taiwan should be wary.
  3. Zugzwang
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    24 Feb '21 00:082 edits
    @philokalia said
    An excellent article from William Yang documenting the efforts of the Chinese Communist Party to destroy liberty and democracy in Hong Kong:

    [quote]On Monday, Xia Bao-long, the director of China’s Hong Kong and Macau Affairs Office, gave a speech that highlighted the importance of ensuring Hong Kong’s democratic development doesn’t deviate from the principle of “letting ...[text shortened]... luck to our friends in Hong Kong & everyone who wants true democracy but suffers in the Sinosphere.
    I don't believe in 'Hong Kong exceptionalism'. It would be nice for Hong Kong to
    have more democracy, but that will happen when the rest of China has more democracy.

    When exactly do some Westerners imagine that Hong Kong had a democratic government?
    Certainly not under British racist colonial rule. Only after the British became convinced that
    they could not hang on to Hong Kong after 1997 did they start to make gestures toward 'democracy'.
    So Hong Kong had a legislature, but its power was limited to *advising* the British governor.
    Ultimate power remained in London and with a few white British men appointed to rule Hong Kong.
  4. Zugzwang
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    24 Feb '21 00:151 edit
    @moonbus said
    @Philokalia

    Single-party states never long tolerate dissent.

    Taiwan should be wary.
    Westerners here ignorantly misperceive Taiwan and its history through rose-colored glasses.

    Taiwan was long ruled by a brutal right-wing party that had no tolerance of dissent.
    In fact the KMT even sent agents to murder suspected dissidents abroad (even in the USA).

    https://www.amnesty.org/download/Documents/204000/asa380011976en.pdf

    "Violations of human rights have been the prevailing practice in Taiwan."
    --Amnesty International

    https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/3020894/taiwans-brutal-white-terror-period-revisited

    "Taiwan’s brutal White Terror period revisited on Green Island: confronting demons inside a former prison.
    Thousands of political prisoners were incarcerated in a notorious prison under Chiang Kai-shek’s rule."

    "...the darkest expression of totalitarian rule in Taiwan, namely the “White Terror”: decades of
    disappearances, imprisonments and executions under Chiang Kai-shek’s martial law."

    I recall an article by a woman in the USA, who had grown up in Taiwan after 1949.
    She was the best student in her high school, and so the KMT recruited her as a youth leader.
    She declined to join the KMT, however, and, worse yet for her, she was caught
    (subversion!) receiving a letter from an aunt in mainland China.
    She discovered that the school's head (a fanatical KMT supporter) was recommending
    that she be imprisoned for 20 years in order to teach a lesson to the other students.
    Fortunately, her family once had done a life-changing favor to someone who had
    become a general in Taiwan. Now, at this time of need, they asked for his help.
    He arranged for her to leave Taiwan immediately for the USA.
  5. SubscriberEarl of Trumps
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    24 Feb '21 00:36
    @moonbus said
    @Philokalia

    Single-party states never long tolerate dissent.

    Taiwan should be wary.
    exactly.

    I think Taiwan will be the startup of a war that will likely involve the US and possibly, the UK.
  6. S. Korea
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    24 Feb '21 00:44
    @duchess64 said
    I don't believe in 'Hong Kong exceptionalism'. It would be nice for Hong Kong to
    have more democracy, but that will happen when the rest of China has more democracy.

    When exactly do some Westerners imagine that Hong Kong had a democratic government?
    Certainly not under British racist colonial rule. Only after the British became convinced that
    they could not hang on ...[text shortened]... or.
    Ultimate power remained in London and with a few white British men appointed to rule Hong Kong.
    You don't want Hong Kong to have Democracy because:

    - You are a loyalist to the Chinese Communist Party
    - China cannot & will never have Democracy
    - "Hong Kong is China"

    Thus, one of the most "liberal" and "progressive" posters here, haranguing all of the Americans about racial politics & social justice, ultimately is anti-democratic, anti-liberal, and against the basic human rights for Chinese.

    But she attempts to distract us by bringing up colonialism.
  7. Joined
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    24 Feb '21 00:48
    WW3 cometh 🤗
  8. Joined
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    24 Feb '21 00:49
    @Philokalia

    Well said.

    You are 100% right about her.
  9. Zugzwang
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    24 Feb '21 00:59
    @philokalia said
    You don't want Hong Kong to have Democracy because:

    - You are a loyalist to the Chinese Communist Party
    - China cannot & will never have Democracy
    - "Hong Kong is China"

    Thus, one of the most "liberal" and "progressive" posters here, haranguing all of the Americans about racial politics & social justice, ultimately is anti-democratic, anti-liberal, and against ...[text shortened]... e basic human rights for Chinese.

    But she attempts to distract us by bringing up colonialism.
    Philokalia keeps blatantly lying as usual.

    Philokalia presumably greatly admires British racist colonial rule over Hong Kong.
  10. Zugzwang
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    24 Feb '21 01:36
    @duchess64 said
    Westerners here ignorantly misperceive Taiwan and its history through rose-colored glasses.

    Taiwan was long ruled by a brutal right-wing party that had no tolerance of dissent.
    In fact the KMT even sent agents to murder suspected dissidents abroad (even in the USA).

    https://www.amnesty.org/download/Documents/204000/asa380011976en.pdf

    "Violations of human rights ha ...[text shortened]... time of need, they asked for his help.
    He arranged for her to leave Taiwan immediately for the USA.
    Note that none of the Western writers here who seem eager to demonize the Chinese
    Communists as worse than the Nazis has shown any willingness to condemn the KMT
    (which was strongly supported by the USA) for its long record of brutal repression and violence.
    (The KMT was a de facto ally of the Nazis until they decided to choose Japan. )

    If the KMT had won the civil war in China, then Chiang Kai-shek would have followed up
    by instituting concentration camps (likely worse than Franco's after the Spanish Civil War)
    that would have held millions of Chinese. And Westerners would have cheered their approval.

    My point is that no matter which side won a long bitter civil war, it was going to punish its enemies.
  11. Zugzwang
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    24 Feb '21 01:39
    @earl-of-trumps said
    exactly.

    I think Taiwan will be the startup of a war that will likely involve the US and possibly, the UK.
    The USA could not have cared less about 'democracy' in Taiwan during the long
    time that it was ruled by a brutal right-wing dictatorship (aided by the USA).

    The real issue is that the USA fears China becoming stronger and will do about anything to stop it.
  12. S. Korea
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    24 Feb '21 02:32
    Please note, Duchess has attempted to "talk" about Chinese plans to destroy democracy in Hong Kong by

    - Bringing up British colonialism
    - Bringing up Taiwan

    She refuses to acknowledge what will actually be happening in the Hong Kong government due to these policies, and how these policies themselves are anti-democratic & totalitarian, and reflective of Chinese Communism.

    Nobody should take anything she says about social justice or democracy in the West seriously.

    Either she must duly criticize Chinese Communist totalitarianism, and then be taken seriously as a poster, or she must abandon her criticisms of the West, and then be properly understood as a ChiCom loyalist whose chief act is providing a shallow propaganda puppet show to distract us from the bitter realities about human rights violations in China.
  13. Subscribershavixmir
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    24 Feb '21 04:09
    @duchess64 said
    Philokalia keeps blatantly lying as usual.

    Philokalia presumably greatly admires British racist colonial rule over Hong Kong.
    No. But British racist rule over Hong Kong says nothing about China’s plans to destroy its fledgling democracy.

    Just because Britain was a bad girl, doesn’t mean you can’t criticise China’s behaviour.

    I don’t see you offering Israel the same leniency: “Oh, the Nazis were bad to the Jews, so Israel’s behaviour towards the Palestinians...”
  14. Joined
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    24 Feb '21 05:261 edit
    The Palestinians were conquered.

    Quite easily actually 🤔

    A stroke of a pen lmao 🤣
  15. Zugzwang
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    24 Feb '21 06:29
    @shavixmir said
    No. But British racist rule over Hong Kong says nothing about China’s plans to destroy its fledgling democracy.

    Just because Britain was a bad girl, doesn’t mean you can’t criticise China’s behaviour.

    I don’t see you offering Israel the same leniency: “Oh, the Nazis were bad to the Jews, so Israel’s behaviour towards the Palestinians...”
    I have no problem with Hong Kong people criticizing China's government.
    I may or may not agree with the criticisms, yet I have no problem with them doing it.

    The thread's title's premise seems to be that democracy thrived in Hong Kong (left
    behind by the wonderful British) before the evil Chinese decided to 'destroy' it.
    One cannot destroy what never existed.

    Hong Kong is not and never has been an independent country. It's part of China.
    Now I understand that Hong Kong was promised some autonomy (not promised
    'democracy' as I recall) until 2047, and Beijing has been moving prematurely to curtail it.
    So I understand that grievance of many people in Hong Kong.

    But if Beijing waited until 2047 (when the agreement would expire) and then took
    an ironclad grip on Hong Kong, I don't imagine that Westerners would say,
    "China respected the letter of the agreement and kept its word not to end autonomy until 2047."

    Again, I don't believe in 'Hong Kong exceptionalism'. Hong Kong will become
    more democratic at about the same time that the rest of China does.
    When will that happen? I don't know, but I certainly don't believe it's impossible.

    When Mao Zedong died (1976), how many Westerners could have predicted that
    'Red China' would unleash (largely unregulated) capitalism? None.
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