25 May '19 14:32>
@eladar saidThey set up a society, not a loose federation of hermits.
You can tell what they meant by the society they set up. What they were thinking clearly is not what you are thinking.
@eladar saidThey set up a society, not a loose federation of hermits.
You can tell what they meant by the society they set up. What they were thinking clearly is not what you are thinking.
@averagejoe1 saidTo understand the nature and quantity of government proper for man, it is necessary to attend to his character. As Nature created him for social life, she fitted him for the station she intended. In all cases she made his natural wants greater than his individual powers. No one man is capable, without the aid of society, of supplying his own wants, and those wants, acting upon every individual, impel the whole of them into society, as naturally as gravitation acts to a centre.
I love ya' thousand> But I just cant be a'clicking on links
@eladar saidDirect taxes were common in the States, so yes the Founders did think government could and should tax people directly.
@no1marauder
Yes they did but each person functions within a small grouping of islands. For defense people may be called to defend their free society, free to function as they wished.
How many of the founding fathers would believe the government should tax people directly? In essence turning each person in the US into a vassal of the government. It certainly was not th ...[text shortened]... ican population. People like you want to tell others how great that bit feels and why it is needed.
@no1marauder saidThe Federal government taxed income directly?
Direct taxes were common in the States, so yes the Founders did think government could and should tax people directly.
@no1marauder saidNO One Man is Capable without the aid of Society. Correct. I cannot order a few trucks of asphalt and build a road to my business. I cannot fly a jet plane to protect my business from invaders. We get that. Go Thomas Payne, and you.
To understand the nature and quantity of government proper for man, it is necessary to attend to his character. As Nature created him for social life, she fitted him for the station she intended. In all cases she made his natural wants greater than his individual powers. No one man is capable, without the aid of society, of supplying his own wants, and those wants, acting ...[text shortened]... ty ceases to act. It begins and ends with our being.
Thomas Paine, Rights of Man Chapter 1
@eladar saidYou said "government", not "Federal government".
The Federal government taxed income directly?
@averagejoe1 saidThe capitalist system has the built in disadvantage of not being able and/or willing to employ everyone. As humans formed societies for mutual protection, it would be contrary to its very purpose to have members of said society starve to death because of an inefficient economic system. Thus, IF you are going to have a capitalist economic system based on private property with few checks on personal acquisition, you are going to have to have a social welfare system if you are going to accomplish the basic goal of society i.e. protection of its members.
NO One Man is Capable without the aid of Society. Correct. I cannot order a few trucks of asphalt and build a road to my business. I cannot fly a jet plane to protect my business from invaders. We get that. Go Thomas Payne, and you.
So, each member, individual, of the said society has a meeting and agrees to use their talents for such tasks. We all agree pa ...[text shortened]... our children to not be dependent on others. Your stuff seems to lead to dependency, I just hate it.
@no1marauder saidState governments directly taxed income?
You said "government", not "Federal government".
@eladar saidYou are goalpost shifting. Here's what you originally said:
State governments directly taxed income?
@no1marauder saidSorry for being imprecise. In my mind I was thinking income tax as directly. So not goal post moving just being more precise.
You are goalpost shifting. Here's what you originally said:
Eladar: How many of the founding fathers would believe the government should tax people directly?
The answer to that question is "virtually all of them".
@mchill saidSo obviously you think greed is a sin. It is funny that the only time Left wingers talk of sin is when it comes to greed cuz they believe that Jesus wants the state to become theocratic for a long enough time to have the state take all wealth and divvy it up evenly. But just as soon as that happens, Jesus can take a hike. No legislating away abortion, gay marriage, etc.
It never ceases to amaze me how evangelical conservatives who claim to hold Christian values such as compassion for the poor, so dear, practice so little of what they preach. Frankly, I don't know how these people can look at themselves in the mirror.
This is the result of conservative trickle down economics.
Saez and Zucman's research on wealth inequality also found ...[text shortened]... /one-brutal-sentence-captures-what-a-disaster-money-in-america-has-become/ar-AABOnO4?ocid=spartandhp
@phranny saidMinimum wage for those who work in exchange for termination of social programs that subsidize those who will not work?
@Eladar Democrats are not advocating subsidizing free loaders. Democrats are agitating for a minimum wage that does not require taxpayers to contribute to a worker's income in order for that worker to survive. What we have now amounts to subsidizing corporations instead of demanding they pay workers a living wage so the rest of us do not have to supplement their income.