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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    30 Oct '13 15:56 / 2 edits
    The affordable care act is getting a lot of posts here (yes...including myself). Some are defending it, and others are trashing it. I think the court of public opinion generally makes the correct decision on most matters, and while this program has clearly gotten off to a rocky start, it must be rembered we are still in the early stages of "signing up" stage. I'd be content to revisit it in 2-3 years to see where things stand.

    One thing I would like to see however is an alternative to the affordable care act from those who don't like it. All I've heard from the insurance industry and the right wing is that "competition will drive costs down" Well...we've been hearing this for 40 years, and healthcare costs continue to sprial out of reach for millions of people. So, what's the alternative plan??
  2. 30 Oct '13 20:03 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by bill718
    The affordable care act is getting a lot of posts here (yes...including myself). Some are defending it, and others are trashing it. I think the court of public opinion generally makes the correct decision on most matters, and while this program has clearly gotten off to a rocky start, it must be rembered we are still in the early stages of "signing up" stag ...[text shortened]... osts continue to sprial out of reach for millions of people. So, what's the alternative plan??
    Competition will drive down costs? Monopolies drive up cost. There is not competition. There is only doctors increasing pricing because insurance will cover it and insurance raising rates because costs are going up.

    If you want competition, then do away with health insurance and make doctors charge their patients directly.
  3. Standard member KellyJayonline
    Walk your Faith
    30 Oct '13 20:44
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Competition will drive down costs? Monopolies drive up cost. There is not competition. There is only doctors increasing pricing because insurance will cover it and insurance raising rates because costs are going up.

    If you want competition, then do away with health insurance and make doctors charge their patients directly.
    Well things cost less before health insurance, but why settle for when the
    doctors were in competition, why not allow insurance companies fight it out
    across the whole nation? You have some that treat the people like dirt then
    it would be easier to find another company some where that does not and
    over time the bad ones go away.
    Kelly
  4. 30 Oct '13 21:07
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Well things cost less before health insurance, but why settle for when the
    doctors were in competition, why not allow insurance companies fight it out
    across the whole nation? You have some that treat the people like dirt then
    it would be easier to find another company some where that does not and
    over time the bad ones go away.
    Kelly
    You need to get rid of the monopoly. They feed off each other the system is flawed at the root.
  5. 30 Oct '13 21:12
    It might interest you guys to know what is going on here in Ireland
    with regard to the health market.

    People are leaving private health insurance in their thousands
    because of two main reasons.

    1. It is becoming very expensive. The costs rise dramatically every year.

    2. Those who keep their health plan are finding that when they actually
    get into hospital and make a claim, the private health insurance company
    tells them that they are not covered for the operation they are having
    and so will not pay out.


    The lesson?


    Private health insurance is a scam.

    These companies will do all they can to avoid paying out.
  6. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    30 Oct '13 23:18
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    It might interest you guys to know what is going on here in Ireland
    with regard to the health market.

    People are leaving private health insurance in their thousands
    because of two main reasons.

    1. It is becoming very expensive. The costs rise dramatically every year.

    2. Those who keep their health plan are finding that when they actua ...[text shortened]... Private health insurance is a scam.

    These companies will do all they can to avoid paying out.
    Johnny- You are 100% correct! Please forgive the American lemmings. They were taught at a young age to worship the almighty Corporations above Jesus Christ.
  7. 31 Oct '13 00:25
    Originally posted by bill718
    The affordable care act is getting a lot of posts here (yes...including myself). Some are defending it, and others are trashing it. I think the court of public opinion generally makes the correct decision on most matters, and while this program has clearly gotten off to a rocky start, it must be rembered we are still in the early stages of "signing up" stag ...[text shortened]... osts continue to sprial out of reach for millions of people. So, what's the alternative plan??
    The alternative plan is called free market. The damage will already be done in 2-3 years.
  8. 31 Oct '13 00:30
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Competition will drive down costs? Monopolies drive up cost. There is not competition. There is only doctors increasing pricing because insurance will cover it and insurance raising rates because costs are going up.

    If you want competition, then do away with health insurance and make doctors charge their patients directly.
    What about doing away with auto insurance and home insurance, and make shops and contractors charge their customers directly for repairs?
  9. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    31 Oct '13 02:40
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    The alternative plan is called free market. The damage will already be done in 2-3 years.
    The free market?? Oh Yes...the market where competition will "drive costs down" right? Yeah, that's the market which has priced tens of millions out of any chance for healthcare coverage. Boy...I'd sure glad we have these insurance companies and HMO's to look out for us!!
  10. 31 Oct '13 02:45
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Competition will drive down costs? Monopolies drive up cost. There is not competition. There is only doctors increasing pricing because insurance will cover it and insurance raising rates because costs are going up.

    If you want competition, then do away with health insurance and make doctors charge their patients directly.
    The ACA increases competition among the insurance companies.
  11. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    31 Oct '13 05:53
    Originally posted by bill718
    Johnny- You are 100% correct! Please forgive the American lemmings. They were taught at a young age to worship the almighty Corporations above Jesus Christ.
    Anything you agree with is fact, anything you disagree with is an evil lie.

    Insurance companies do suck. But this bill sucks much, much worse.
  12. Standard member caissad4
    Child of the Novelty
    31 Oct '13 06:13
    Originally posted by moon1969
    The ACA increases competition among the insurance companies.
    Realistically this competition has been operating for decades and costs continue to skyrocket. The only competition is between insurance companies to see who can suck the most money out of consumers. And now the insurance companies have an ally in the White House. When you are driving your car at 1 mph and increase to 2 mph you have increased your speed 100%. WOW !
  13. 31 Oct '13 19:08
    Originally posted by bill718
    The affordable care act is getting a lot of posts here (yes...including myself). Some are defending it, and others are trashing it. I think the court of public opinion generally makes the correct decision on most matters, and while this program has clearly gotten off to a rocky start, it must be rembered we are still in the early stages of "signing up" stag ...[text shortened]... osts continue to sprial out of reach for millions of people. So, what's the alternative plan??
    The alternative plan is a free market system, where people pay for their routine medical services out of pocket, and where insurance covers catastrophic injuries and illness. This market driven approach would reduce costs so that all could afford basic care, and those wanting more could afford to purchase it.

    We had that system until shortly after WWII. Cost began to escalate out of control with the advent of insurance that covered everything, and Medicare and Medicaid.
  14. 31 Oct '13 19:10
    Originally posted by bill718
    The free market?? Oh Yes...the market where competition will "drive costs down" right? Yeah, that's the market which has priced tens of millions out of any chance for healthcare coverage. Boy...I'd sure glad we have these insurance companies and HMO's to look out for us!!
    Bill, insurance companies haven't operated in a free market for 70 years.
  15. 31 Oct '13 19:24
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Well things cost less before health insurance, but why settle for when the
    doctors were in competition, why not allow insurance companies fight it out
    across the whole nation? You have some that treat the people like dirt then
    it would be easier to find another company some where that does not and
    over time the bad ones go away.
    Kelly
    The problem really is as simple as there are things that are insurable, and things that aren't. Any insurance actuary will tell you that, but insurance companies have been forced or tricked into insuring things that are not insurable.

    Insurable things are risks, which may or may not happen. Things that are known to be already happening or will certainly happen aren't risks. They are uninsurable.

    Care in the 40s when I was born and growing up was cheap and doctors made housecalls, and let you pay when you could. You had hospital insurance, and sometimes a major medical to cover extra ordinary events, risks that might never happen.

    Health care, as we perceive it today is not insurable. Many treatments and examinations are predictable, and recommended for everyone. These things are not risks, but known event which we ought to be prepared to pay for just as we do our food. Getting hungry isn't a risk, but a known condition which happens every day.