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Debates Forum

  1. 29 Jun '10 02:33 / 13 edits
    This post was inspired by someone I know who recently was discharged from the armed services due to a medical condition. He only learned of the medical condition after making it through boot camp. He then was told he needed urgent care and needed a surgery yesterday or he could die. To make a long story short, he had the emergency surgery, which did not clear his medical problems. In fact, he was later told by a physician outside the military that the surgery was not only unecessary, it made his problems worse. Then the military "discarded" the soldier and he was held in military limbo. After he was treated poorly and denied leave to see his family, he decided to go home "AWOL" over a weekend and returned on his own accord but he was caught after a buddy of his ratted him out. To make a long story short, the soldier was not given a dishonerable discharge, but was not given an honorable discharge either and was denied further medical benefits. Granted, it was a bone headed decision to go home AWOL, but the treatement the soldier recieved after the military learned he was "damaged goods" is appalling. In fact, he was held in limbo for about half a year as this all unfolded as the soldier was denied leave for medical treatment or even to talk to his family. Now he has finally been released and they will not even so much as give him his medical records. The young lad's family then contacted their Congressman and come to find out the Congressman responded that he has recived many complaints like the one being given.

    So Whodey did some digging and this is an interesting article I came up with.

    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/02/tnsmedboards070217/

    "Thousands of wounded troops are routinely rushed from the war zone for health care and then stranded in administrative limbo. They are at the mercy of medical evaluation system that is agonizingly slow, grossly understaffed, and saddled with a growing backlog of cases. The wounded soldiers are stuck in holding companies awaiting hearings and decisions on whether they will continue their service or be discharged, and if so, at what level of benefits -- if any. In 2001, 10% of soldiers going through the medical retirement process recieved permanent disability benefits. In 2005, with 2 wars waging, that percentage dropped to 3%."

    So how about AmryParatrooperman? In fact, what do the rest of you say? Do you know anyone in this predicament like I do? It seems to me that instead of focusing on universal health coverage, Obama and company should be giving the best care they can to the men and women laying down their lives so that their pampered arses can live in the lap of luxary and continue wars that cannot be properly waged and unwinable due to political constrants. Then to add icing on the cake, use generals as scapgoats for failed policies. Then again, perhaps this government run health care is something that we all can look forward to in the near future.
  2. 29 Jun '10 06:19
    You'd think that with that enourmous budget, they'd be able to fund adequate health care for their soldiers.
  3. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    29 Jun '10 07:03
    Originally posted by whodey
    ...instead of focusing on universal health coverage, Obama and company should be giving the best care they can to the men and women laying down their lives so that their pampered arses can live in the lap of luxary and continue wars that cannot be properly waged and unwinable due to political constrants.
    Instead? This is a pretty ludicrous either-or fallacy you're conjuring up here.
  4. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    29 Jun '10 09:01 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    This post was inspired by someone I know who recently was discharged from the armed services due to a medical condition. He only learned of the medical condition after making it through boot camp. He then was told he needed urgent care and needed a surgery yesterday or he could die. To make a long story short, he had the emergency surgery, which did not cl rnment run health care is something that we all can look forward to in the near future.
    As appalling as I think it is and no matter of how much I disagree with the military this is a damn shame. It is a despicable act to call him so many young people with a lot of promises and then just pretend they don't exist when they aren't fit to kill anymore.

    You can also do a research about depleted uranium weapons, their effects on the civilian populations, and their effect on the soldiers.
    It's no surprise that the big heads in the military don't give a damn about the poor people in Afghanistan and Iraq, but to not give a damn about their own people just shows how truly despicable they are.

    Edit:
    It seems to me that instead of focusing on universal health coverage, Obama and company should be giving the best care they can to the men and women laying down their lives

    It already is according to William Kristol.
  5. 29 Jun '10 09:11
    Originally posted by FMF
    Instead? This is a pretty ludicrous either-or fallacy you're conjuring up here.
    How so FMF? If the US government does not give a damn about its soldiers, why would they care about little old Whodey?
  6. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    29 Jun '10 09:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    How so FMF? If the US government does not give a damn about its soldiers, why would they care about little old Whodey?
    "instead of focusing on universal health coverage, Obama and company should be giving the best care [to service men and women]" This is a rather daft false dilemma. "Instead"? Why is it an either/or thing for you? Clearly both are not only possible but necessary.
  7. 29 Jun '10 09:13
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    As appalling as I think it is and no matter of how much I disagree with the military this is a damn shame. It is a despicable act to call him so many young people with a lot of promises and then just pretend they don't exist when they aren't fit to kill amymore.

    You can also do a research about depleted uranium weapons, their effects on the civilian ...[text shortened]... e men and women laying down their lives[/quote]
    It already is according to William Kristol.
    I have to say, after hearing this soldiers hard luck story and now reading about many more of them, I would try to discourage anyone trying to join up. It is sad but true.
  8. 29 Jun '10 09:14
    Originally posted by FMF
    "instead of focusing on universal health coverage, Obama and company should be giving the best care [to service men and women]" This is a rather daft false dilemma.
    I will tell that to the soldier in question FMF. I'll just tell him he is a daft false delimma.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    29 Jun '10 09:15
    Originally posted by whodey
    I will tell that to the soldier in question FMF. I'll just tell him he is a daft false delimma.
    You have presented the false dilemma. Not your soldier friend.
  10. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    29 Jun '10 09:19 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    I have to say, after hearing this soldiers hard luck story and now reading about many more of them, I would try to discourage anyone trying to join up. It is sad but true.
    If I'm not mistaken it was 60 minutes that made a piece about this subject not to long ago. It was very revealing I can tell you that.

    And what about all oh those heroes that were helping out people while 9/11 was happening, got a lot of health problems because of that and now are just totally ignored?
    I have to tell you that your government has its priorities totally mixed up.
  11. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    29 Jun '10 09:20 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    I'll just tell [the soldier friend] he is a daft false delimma.
    Your inablity to understand what an either-or-fallacy is, is not - in and of itself - a valid debating point.
  12. 29 Jun '10 09:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    I will tell that to the soldier in question FMF. I'll just tell him he is a daft false delimma.
    Do you genuinely believe the most powerful country in the world cannot afford to provide health care to both its citizens and its armed forces? Do you really? Well, if you do, then it's not a false dilemma, but you're daft nonetheless.
  13. 29 Jun '10 09:48 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    You have presented the false dilemma. Not your soldier friend.
    Ok FMF, just because the military treats its injured soldiers like dung in no way suggests that the same will happen to civilians. Perhaps Big Brother simply hates its soldiers. If only they were illlegal aliens they might be afforded a little respect.
  14. 29 Jun '10 09:49
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    I have to tell you that your government has its priorities totally mixed up.[/b]
    The hell you say!!
  15. 29 Jun '10 09:52 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Do you genuinely believe the most powerful country in the world cannot afford to provide health care to both its citizens and its armed forces? Do you really? Well, if you do, then it's not a false dilemma, but you're daft nonetheless.
    You can speculate all day long about these things but at the end of the day all we have are the end results.

    True or false, is Big Brother in charge of our soldiers? True. Are they being properly cared for? No. However, according to people like FMF and yourself this is no indication of how Big Brother will care for its citizens.

    So lets explore the options of people who are dependent on Big Brother for their health care. They can complain or they can hire a lawyer and fight a never ending expanding bureacracy that is bigger than God himself.