Ecuador coup

Originally posted by zeeblebot
i have heard of it; maybe i read the news more often or we get more s. american news.

dealers don't control the price so much. ask the economics guys. look at iran-contra.

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/colombia-drugs.htm

=>

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/drugs/cache.htm

The Miami Herald
Fri, Sep. 02, 2005

4-ton cocaine cache ...[text shortened]... e one of their biggest cocaine busts to date, uncovering 3.9 tons in a former diaper warehouse.

2005. what since then?

i'm still going to refuse to believe that prices would go down if colombia did legalise the production of cocaine but it's something that neither of us can prove until it actually happens, which it won't.

the ‘economics guys’ might know things about the swings in legal products but i doubt any of that applies to illegal substances such as cocaine, do you really think the guys who are making the most from cocaine will allow its price to drop? i seriously doubt it regardless of how much of the stuff they have. maybe I’m wrong but i’d like to think they’d do anything it takes to maintain profits.

Originally posted by trev33
2005. what since then?

i'm still going to refuse to believe that prices would go down if colombia did legalise the production of cocaine but it's something that neither of us can prove until it actually happens, which it won't.

the ‘economics guys’ might know things about the swings in legal products but i doubt any of that applies to illegal substances ...[text shortened]... have. maybe I’m wrong but i’d like to think they’d do anything it takes to maintain profits.

If they have less drug busts, they can increase profits and reduce prices slightly because of larger quantity. It's not necessarily that all price drops reduce profits. It all depends on how much more is sold. But I also doubt it would have a significant effect on price.

What seems to be true empirically is that legalization of consumption tends to reduce prices and actually decrease (local) consumption. This definitely hurts the dealers profits.

Originally posted by trev33
2005. what since then?

i'm still going to refuse to believe that prices would go down if colombia did legalise the production of cocaine but it's something that neither of us can prove until it actually happens, which it won't.

the ‘economics guys’ might know things about the swings in legal products but i doubt any of that applies to illegal substances ...[text shortened]... have. maybe I’m wrong but i’d like to think they’d do anything it takes to maintain profits.

trev33 never reads the Miami Herald or perhaps forgets what he's read.

trev33: when do you ever hear of the colombian government blocking a cocaine shipment? i never have.

re "refuse to believe", nothing new there, people still refuse to believe NASA landed men on the moon. i've explained why prices would be expected to go down, it's supply and demand and controls. eliminating controls at one point increases supply at that point, it won't increase demand or necessarily change controls at another point.

2010:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/07/04/1715439/world-cup-replica-made-of-cocaine.html

Posted on Sunday, 07.04.10

World Cup replica made of cocaine found at Bogota airport

By ASSOCIATED PRESS

BOGOTA, Colombia -- Fans worldwide have fashioned replicas of the World Cup trophy out of everything from papier-mache to plastic. But a lawbreaker in Colombia gets top prize for most original material: cocaine.

Airports anti-drug chief Col. Jose Piedrahita says that Colombian authorities found the unusual statue during a routine security check by anti-drug agents on Friday in a mail warehouse at Bogota's international airport.

The 14-inch-high statue was inside a box headed for Madrid, Spain. The statue was painted gold with green stripes on the base.

Piedrahita said Saturday that laboratory tests confirmed the cup was made of 24 pounds of cocaine mixed with acetone or gasoline to make it moldable.

Originally posted by trev33
how about the fact that there's visibly many more homeless people in colombia than in any other s. american county while the government continues to spend millions each year on a war they can't possibly win to please the middle class.

Oh if thats the criterion we're using to determine whether or not a country needs a coup d'etat than I guess you might as well support the overthrow of all other south american govts no? and who's voting for these people again?

I think the reasons for the war go way beyond the desire to "please the middle class", but Im sure you'd have the guts to tell that to the families who had their relatives kidnapped by the FARC or who had their relatives killed during a shootout.

Originally posted by zeeblebot
trev33 never reads the Miami Herald or perhaps forgets what he's read.

trev33: [b]when do you ever hear of the colombian government blocking a cocaine shipment? i never have.

re "refuse to believe", nothing new there, people still refuse to believe NASA landed men on the moon. i've explained why prices would be expected to go down, it's suppl ...[text shortened]... cup was made of 24 pounds of cocaine mixed with acetone or gasoline to make it moldable.[/b]

lol what a huge amount of coke there was in that replica world cup. that's exactly what they'll do if production becomes legal to export it to other countries. so when asked to produce more examples of a solo colombain drug seizure you've came up with a comic news story about small amount cocaine being found at an airport, hardly sufficient, is it? plus even if production were made legal there’d still be checks going in and out of colombian airports. think about it.

btw if you'd like to read paprika’s post above yours you'll find one of your 'economy guys' agreeing with my main point. stop trying to agrue a point you can’t possibly prove.

Back on topic: things seemed to have cooled down in Ecuador and the elected President seems firmly in charge. He has decided not to dissolve Congress and call new elections but is resolved to punish those responsible for the violence.http://en.mercopress.com/2010/10/04/ecuadorean-president-backs-off-from-dissolving-congress

Originally posted by generalissimo
Oh if thats the criterion we're using to determine whether or not a country needs a coup d'etat than I guess you might as well support the overthrow of all other south american govts no? and who's voting for these people again?

I think the reasons for the war go way beyond the desire to "please the middle class", but Im sure you'd have the guts to t ...[text shortened]... their relatives kidnapped by the FARC or who had their relatives killed during a shootout.

Oh if thats the criterion we're using to determine whether or not a country needs a coup d'etat than I guess you might as well support the overthrow of all other south american govts no?

no. like every country in the world every other s. american country has a large gap between the richest and the poorest but colombia has by far more homeless people than anywhere else in s. america and they're not the poorest country so they really have no excuse.

how many s. american countries have you visited? talk to me about this when you've walked around in various town, cities and small villages in a large proportion of s. american countries. you won't be defending the colombian government after that experience, i guarantee it.

I think the reasons for the war go way beyond the desire to "please the middle class"

the middle class vote has kept this government in power, what do you think?

Originally posted by trev33
[b]Oh if thats the criterion we're using to determine whether or not a country needs a coup d'etat than I guess you might as well support the overthrow of all other south american govts no?

no. like every country in the world every other s. american country has a large gap between the richest and the poorest but colombia has by far more homeless people ...[text shortened]... class"[/b]

the middle class vote has kept this government in power, what do you think?[/b]

I believe corruption is the problem here, but I don't think a coup will solve the problem, if anything it will only undermine the country's institutions and damage the people's faith in democracy.

I have traveled throughout brazil on several occasions, I've been to paraguay (asuncion), and I've been to colombia (never outside of bogota though). Throughout my life I have seen poverty and deprivation. I have also seen ignorance on the part of the poor who insist on voting for populist politicians while never investigating where the money goes. Im sure the colombian government isn't alone in its share of the blame.

the middle class vote has kept this government in power, what do you think?
you think the poor don't vote?

I believe its easy for you to campaign for coups from the safety of your home, but Im sure you would think differently if you actually lived in colombia.

Originally posted by trev33
lol what a huge amount of coke there was in that replica world cup. that's exactly what they'll do if production becomes legal to export it to other countries. so when asked to produce more examples of a solo colombain drug seizure you've came up with a comic news story about small amount cocaine being found at an airport, hardly sufficient, is it? plus even ...[text shortened]... guys' agreeing with my main point. stop trying to agrue a point you can’t possibly prove.

again, trev33 hasn't heard of it, and can't google it himself.

palynka's post also appears to be based on his intuition, like yours was. see sentence 3 of the paragraph below re price.


http://bogota.usembassy.gov/nas-interdiction.html

Narcotics Affairs Section

Interdiction

Interdiction ($16.5 M)

* 191 metric tons of cocaine and base seized in 2007
* Programs with Police, Navy, Air Force, and Army
* Gets product further up value-added chain
* Follow-up investigations and arrests

Colombia's public security forces prevented hundreds of tons of illicit drugs from reaching the world market through interdiction of cocaine and heroine. Colombia's police and military forces captured or shared in the capture of 191 metric tons of cocaine and cocaine base. USG analysis, based in multiple sources, concludes that, since March 2007, cocaine availability in the U.S. has fallen significantly, while the price has increased and average purity decreased. The CNP, led by DIRAN, interdicted over 71 metric tons of cocaine and base in addition to destroying 1,154 drug laboratories and 14 runways in 2007. GOC authorities also conducted numerous joint operations against high-value narcotics terrorist targets such as the one where Diego León Montoya Sánchez, a/k/a “Don Diego” was arrested. Important asset seizures included the 95 million dollars owned by Juan Carlos Ramirez Abadía, a/k/a “Chupeta”.

Originally posted by generalissimo
I believe corruption is the problem here, but I don't think a coup will solve the problem, if anything it will only undermine the country's institutions and damage the people's faith in democracy.

I have traveled throughout brazil on several occasions, I've been to paraguay (asuncion), and I've been to colombia (never outside of bogota though). Thro ...[text shortened]... of your home, but Im sure you would think differently if you actually lived in colombia.

when have i made a "campaign" for a coup in colombia? this thread was about the feeble coup attempt in ecuador and i merely stated if any country in s. america needs a coup it's colombia, that's not campaigning that's stating how poor i think the colombian government is and suggesting they need a change. That’s not a campaign for a coup, of course a change of government by political means would be the preferred option.

you think the poor don't vote?

without looking at any specific colombian figures i'd say the percentage of middle and upper class voters are higher than that of the lower classes in colombia like they usually are in the rest of the world. plus poorer people are generally less educated and less inclined to vote for a party that's actually out to help them and more inclined to get sucked in by empty promises if they do manage to vote.

going by gdp colombia is classed as the 6th richest country in s. america, paraguay the 11th with less than half the gdp of colombia. would you have guessed that walking through both their capital cities? i doubt it.

Im sure you would think differently if you actually lived in colombia.

if i lived in colombia i'd move.

Originally posted by zeeblebot
again, trev33 hasn't heard of it, and can't google it himself.

palynka's post also appears to be based on his intuition, like yours was. see sentence 3 of the paragraph below re price.


http://bogota.usembassy.gov/nas-interdiction.html

Narcotics Affairs Section

Interdiction

Interdiction ($16.5 M)

* 191 metric tons of cocaine ...[text shortened]... zures included the 95 million dollars owned by Juan Carlos Ramirez Abadía, a/k/a “Chupeta”.

the key being 'shared in the capture'. if (and it will never happen, so this dissuasion is totally pointless) colombia did legalise the production and distribution of cocaine do you think the us and europe would maintain the same level of activity to prevent it from getting to their shores or would they up their patrol in a bid to fill the gaps left the colombian pull out?

i seriously think you’re underestimating the role the us had in all of those 'colombian' seizers. it really so of no benefit for the us to get total credit but colombia as a population to fool into voting them in for another term, what better way to do that than seemingly preventing millions of dollars worth of cocaine from leaving colombia, thus stopping farc getting their hands on those millions because farc controls all the drug trafficking in colombia you know.

btw even if more coke did manage to get in you have no idea if prices are going to go down or not, it's not a simple supply and demand comment when you're dealing with 'criminals' carrying and selling an illegal substance like cocaine.

The price wouldn't go down. Governments would tax it, then raise the taxes to silly levels based on health risk.

Surprise, surprise...

http://www.antifascistencyclopedia.com/allposts/report-confirmed-u-s-intelligence-has-penetrated-the-ecuadorian-police

The uprising by elements of the Ecuadorian police against President Rafael Correa confirms an alarming report, released in 2008, on the infiltration of the Ecuadorian police by U.S. intelligence services, which indicated how many members of police forces had developed a “dependency” on the U.S. Embassy.

The report stated that police units “maintain an informal economic dependence on the United States for the payment of informants, training, equipment and operations.”

The systematic use of techniques of corruption on the part of the CIA to acquire the “good will” of police officers was described and reported on numerous occasions by former CIA agent Philip Agee who, before leaving the ranks of the agency, was assigned to the U.S. Embassy in Quito.

An attempted military coup in Latin America that has the backing of the CIA. Who would thought that that was possible in this day and age?...

Originally posted by adam warlock
Surprise, surprise...

http://www.antifascistencyclopedia.com/allposts/report-confirmed-u-s-intelligence-has-penetrated-the-ecuadorian-police

[quote]The uprising by elements of the Ecuadorian police against President Rafael Correa confirms an alarming report, released in 2008, on the infiltration of the Ecuadorian police by U.S. intelligence servic ...[text shortened]... hat has the backing of the CIA. Who would thought that that was possible in this day and age?...

"The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) is a civilian intelligence agency of the United States government responsible for providing national security intelligence to senior United States policymakers. The CIA also engages in covert activities at the request of the President of the United States of America." Wiki.

You are saying that Obama has ordered the CIA to destabilize Ecuador by means of a coup attempt?

Astonishing.

Originally posted by spruce112358
Astonishing.

Indeed.

Who would thought that the man who has:
opposed habeas corpus
excused torture
allowed the carrying on of extraordinary renditions
defined Guantanamo prisoners as not being people
one of his senior intelligence officials covered up the rape of a nun in Guatemala
kept Robert Gates (one of the man responsible by the backing of the attempted coup in Venezuela)
kept seeling smart bombs to Israel after the Gaza Massacre
diplomatically backed Israel after the flotilla raid
done his best to keep the silence about the recent UN report that concluded that Israeli commandos wilfully killed some of the passengers, and tortured as a mean to punish the surviving ones
increased drone attacks in areas like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen resulting in more than a 100% increase in civilian deaths
authorized Pentagon’s Reliable Replacement Warhead programme (google it so that you can now what it is about 😉 )
increased covert action all over the world
authorized search and kill teams in Afghanistan
tacitly (at least) backed Hondura's coup (while turning a blind eye to the circus elections that followed and all the brutal repression that happened - at least 10 pro Zelaya journalists were murdered and the documentation about the repression of the opposition isn't hard to find at all)
...
...
...
would order such a thing as military coup in USA's backyard?