F-35

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I'm not sure if you're qualified to comment on my delusions, but, Shenyang is a subsidiary of State owned aircraft manufacturer AVIC.

I hardly think Shenyang is raising capital from the marketplace, as a private venture implies. But maybe in China, the rules of logic don't apply.

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I think that you are addled and confused.

Both Chengdu and Shenyang are subsidiaries of AVIC, thus any talk of private ventures by one arm of a conglomerate state owned enterprise in contrast to arrangements another arm of that same conglomerate has with the PLA is nothing more than n levels of Inception. I hope you've seen the movie to get the reference.

Its not a real private venture is it. Your smoke and mirrors show, has a customer, the PLA awarding contracts to different arms of the same state owned conglomerate. And who approves the PLA's budget?

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Duchess you display a tenuous grip on reality. AVIC or the Aviation Industry Corporation of China, has a myriad of subsidiaries, all bankrolled by the State.

It is an incredible piece of artifice to claim that because some of these subsidiaries compete for the attentions of PLA contracts, that they, the subsidiaries of AVIC were somehow driven by the same competitive/capital forces that drive say Boeing in competition with say Lockheed Martin.

It would be totally naive to suggest that Shenyang was going on an all out limb in developing the FC 31. That somehow it risked huge financial loss for itself and thus ultimately AVIC, fails the common sense test.

One controversy your favourite reference source Wikipedia notes concerning AVIC is

"In April 2009, The Wall Street Journal reported that computer spies, allegedly Chinese, "had penetrated the database of the Joint Strike Fighter program and acquired terabytes of secret information about the fighter, possibly compromising its future effectiveness." AVIC allegedly "incorporated the stolen know-how into China's Chengdu J-20 and Shenyang FC-31 fighters."

If true, then Shenyang were more likely tasked with implementing design propositions into a workable prototype before the PLA was willing to come to the party and make any firm orders. Given that AVIC would have greenlighted Shenyang developing the FC-31 concept into reality suggests a high degree of confidence between the brass at the PLA and the engineers/designers/managers at Shenyang/AVIC that there were benefits to be gained above putting all their eggs into a Chengdu J-20 basket.

But you are welcome to believe as your conditioning dictates.

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Yet when it is easily shown that the history of Chinese military aviation is a cornucopia of re-badged Russian planes built under license, what is the average person to think?

Obviously your offensive aside about racial inferiority is your projected inadequacy.

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Only in a very artificial sense, given that the corporation in question, that launched a project without a government contract, was also a government owned entity. To call it a private venture bends reality into being meaningless.

You are being obstinate, you are being stubborn, you are being arrogant to expect any other response to your repetitive vitriolic verbiage.

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You are the queen of racists, don't dissemble and get that twisted.

Both the Shenyang J-15 and J-16 are developed from Russian airframes, the unfinished prototype of the Su-33 and the Su-30 respectively. While it is true that the Shenyang planes have made use of superior Chinese electronics, both of these 4th Generation planes first flew in 2009 and 2011-12 respectively. Your claim that China has been doing it on its own for decades is patently false.

While they have been surpassing the Russians in terms of electronics and by making their airframes lighter through the use of composites, which improves their thrust to weight ratio, to suggest that they have not stood on the shoulders of Russian design and influence is to knowingly perpetrate a fraud.

One good reason why China is surpassing Russia in the arms race, is the disparity in military spending between the two. China more than doubles Russia's yearly spend by $190 billion to $70 billion. Who knows what they can achieve when they start spending US money. (Currently at $700 billion annually)

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Duchess wrongly pretends - at least by omission - that Jinping China is communist.

@kmax87 said
Problem is you'll only ever know in hindsight where the best place was to have spent the money.

That's ridiculous. Obviously a huge part of the military is making predictions about such things and allocating resources appropriately. The issue with the F-35 is it appears absurdly over what a reasonable cost would be for such a marginal advancement in miltary tech. We can't spend willy nilly on whatever and all potential future outcomes exist. And it seems even more ridiculous considering that the recent attacks on our military have not come from jets or boats or tanks (i.e. the tools of war in the prior century). The attacks came through cyber-warfare. Stopping these attacks are really important, but it doesn't appear that the resources have been appropriated to fix the national security threats. Shiny planes are the priority, and they shouldn't be.

@earl-of-trumps said
@kmax87 - said
Duchess you display a tenuous grip on reality. AVIC or the Aviation Industry
Corporation of China, has a myriad of subsidiaries, all bankrolled by the State.

This.

It is no small surprise that China subsidizes their important industries.

Have you seen the price tag of the US military?