24 Feb 21
@wildgrass saidIt hasn't failed. The F16 was designed as a low cost alternative to the F15. That doesn't mean the F15 failed.
$1,700 Billion. That's 8.8 x the net worth of Jeff Bezos. Down the toilet. Lockheed Martin should have to give us back this money... ridiculous
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/02/23/the-us-air-force-just-admitted-the-f-35-stealth-fighter-has-failed/
24 Feb 21
@athousandyoung saidWhen is enough enough? A guy launches a company that becomes the world's most valuable brand and yet the wealth he accumulates from his outrageous success is still ~9x less than the F-35 program (a small piece of our military budget).
It hasn't failed. The F16 was designed as a low cost alternative to the F15. That doesn't mean the F15 failed.
Is that too much money for an airplane?
@wildgrass saidSounds like a guy needs to be taxed more. When is enough enough? A guy accumulates over 10% of the budget of the Air Force's entire F35 project?!
When is enough enough? A guy launches a company that becomes the world's most valuable brand and yet the wealth he accumulates from his outrageous success is still ~9x less than the F-35 program (a small piece of our military budget).
Is that too much money for an airplane?
You'd think someone who is concerned about why the rich aren't richer than the government would be a subscriber.
24 Feb 21
@athousandyoung said'Twas just a simple point of comparison, not an indictment of tax bracketing.
Sounds like a guy needs to be taxed more. When is enough enough? A guy accumulates over 10% of the budget of the Air Force's entire F35 project?!
You'd think someone who is concerned about why the rich aren't richer than the government would be a subscriber.
I guess you are right that the F-35 program was successful if the goal is to transfer $1.7 trillion of US wealth from taxpayers to defense contractors. Should we feel safe now or is more required?
@wildgrass saidI don't know. Why don't we cancel some of the Gerald R Ford supercarriers we are buying? 13 billion each.
'Twas just a simple point of comparison, not an indictment of tax bracketing.
I guess you are right that the F-35 program was successful if the goal is to transfer $1.7 trillion of US wealth from taxpayers to defense contractors. Should we feel safe now or is more required?
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/pentagon-reportedly-estimates-that-the-f-35-budget-plan-is-running-10-billion-short-through-2025-1.644700
The F-35's total "life cycle" cost is estimated at $1.727 trillion in current dollars. Of that, $1.266 trillion is for operations and support of the advanced plane that's a flying supercomputer.
Oh, look, it's only .5 trillion. The other 1.2 trillion hasn't been spent yet because it's for repairs and fuel and such when it's actually in the field. And the UK is paying 10% of the development costs.
Feel better now?
What numbers are appropriate? How do you know? Apparently the product is still wildly popular. Japan wants them.
Was the F22 a failure? Because of cost we cut down the number of F22s we bought. But they're still flying stealth missions in the Middle East.
Is the iPhone a failure? I can buy a smartphone for 50-100 bucks from Samsung and I can drop it without shattering the screen. Why should we pay over $1000 for a cell phone that cracks its delicate glass screen the first time you drop it and is nearly impossible to fix properly? But people seem to think it's worth it. I don't, but other people do.
24 Feb 21
@athousandyoung said
I don't know. Why don't we cancel some of the Gerald R Ford supercarriers we are buying? 13 billion each.
[quote]https://www.stripes.com/news/us/pentagon-reportedly-estimates-that-the-f-35-budget-plan-is-running-10-billion-short-through-2025-1.644700
The F-35's total "life cycle" cost is estimated at $1.727 trillion in current dollars. Of that, $1.266 trillion i ...[text shortened]... y impossible to fix properly? But people seem to think it's worth it. I don't, but other people do.
Why don't we cancel some of the Gerald R Ford supercarriers we are buying?Good idea.
Feel better now?No.
Was the F22 a failure?I can't really comment on that since i'm not a military guy. But I think a reasonable argument could be made that it was not a failure if it objectively contributed necessary added benefit to US national security over previously existing technology. The decision makers on these projects, however, pay more attention to lobbyists than costs. Bigger, faster, cooler even in the absence of a clear need.
Is the iPhone a failure?Is the iPhone funded by taxpayers?
Hey I'm all for dismantling the US military industrial complex but I don't think the F35 specifically is a failure. I simply think it's an extremely expensive product that the US has chosen to develop so that it can maintain a technological overmatch over potential enemies.
Cut the military budget in general down and let the generals and such decide where the money goes.
24 Feb 21
2 edits
@athousandyoung saidCan't we call it a failure since it has not contributed necessary added benefit to US national security over previously existing technology?
Hey I'm all for dismantling the US military industrial complex but I don't think the F35 specifically is a failure. I simply think it's an extremely expensive product that the US has chosen to develop so that it can maintain a technological overmatch over potential enemies.
Cut the military budget in general down and let the generals and such decide where the money goes.
[youtube Eisenhower MIC]OyBNmecVtdU[/youtube]
I am hard pressed to imagine a scenario in which we'd need to use a bunch of these to keep America safe. We have many thousands of other jets that can basically do the same thing and drones do most of the heavy lifting in terms of bombing anyways.
It's time to admit it's a failure and cut losses. The price tag of this one vehicle is the equivalent of all US student debt.