F-35

$1,700 Billion. That's 8.8 x the net worth of Jeff Bezos. Down the toilet. Lockheed Martin should have to give us back this money... ridiculous

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/02/23/the-us-air-force-just-admitted-the-f-35-stealth-fighter-has-failed/

@wildgrass said
$1,700 Billion. That's 8.8 x the net worth of Jeff Bezos. Down the toilet. Lockheed Martin should have to give us back this money... ridiculous

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/02/23/the-us-air-force-just-admitted-the-f-35-stealth-fighter-has-failed/

It hasn't failed. The F16 was designed as a low cost alternative to the F15. That doesn't mean the F15 failed.

@athousandyoung said
It hasn't failed. The F16 was designed as a low cost alternative to the F15. That doesn't mean the F15 failed.

When is enough enough? A guy launches a company that becomes the world's most valuable brand and yet the wealth he accumulates from his outrageous success is still ~9x less than the F-35 program (a small piece of our military budget).

Is that too much money for an airplane?

@wildgrass said
When is enough enough? A guy launches a company that becomes the world's most valuable brand and yet the wealth he accumulates from his outrageous success is still ~9x less than the F-35 program (a small piece of our military budget).

Is that too much money for an airplane?

Sounds like a guy needs to be taxed more. When is enough enough? A guy accumulates over 10% of the budget of the Air Force's entire F35 project?!

You'd think someone who is concerned about why the rich aren't richer than the government would be a subscriber.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

And they are still buying. Even Turkey still wants it. And Israel. And UK. And others.

@athousandyoung said
Sounds like a guy needs to be taxed more. When is enough enough? A guy accumulates over 10% of the budget of the Air Force's entire F35 project?!

You'd think someone who is concerned about why the rich aren't richer than the government would be a subscriber.

'Twas just a simple point of comparison, not an indictment of tax bracketing.

I guess you are right that the F-35 program was successful if the goal is to transfer $1.7 trillion of US wealth from taxpayers to defense contractors. Should we feel safe now or is more required?

@wildgrass said
'Twas just a simple point of comparison, not an indictment of tax bracketing.

I guess you are right that the F-35 program was successful if the goal is to transfer $1.7 trillion of US wealth from taxpayers to defense contractors. Should we feel safe now or is more required?

I don't know. Why don't we cancel some of the Gerald R Ford supercarriers we are buying? 13 billion each.

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/pentagon-reportedly-estimates-that-the-f-35-budget-plan-is-running-10-billion-short-through-2025-1.644700

The F-35's total "life cycle" cost is estimated at $1.727 trillion in current dollars. Of that, $1.266 trillion is for operations and support of the advanced plane that's a flying supercomputer.

Oh, look, it's only .5 trillion. The other 1.2 trillion hasn't been spent yet because it's for repairs and fuel and such when it's actually in the field. And the UK is paying 10% of the development costs.

Feel better now?

What numbers are appropriate? How do you know? Apparently the product is still wildly popular. Japan wants them.

Was the F22 a failure? Because of cost we cut down the number of F22s we bought. But they're still flying stealth missions in the Middle East.

Is the iPhone a failure? I can buy a smartphone for 50-100 bucks from Samsung and I can drop it without shattering the screen. Why should we pay over $1000 for a cell phone that cracks its delicate glass screen the first time you drop it and is nearly impossible to fix properly? But people seem to think it's worth it. I don't, but other people do.

@athousandyoung said
I don't know. Why don't we cancel some of the Gerald R Ford supercarriers we are buying? 13 billion each.

[quote]https://www.stripes.com/news/us/pentagon-reportedly-estimates-that-the-f-35-budget-plan-is-running-10-billion-short-through-2025-1.644700

The F-35's total "life cycle" cost is estimated at $1.727 trillion in current dollars. Of that, $1.266 trillion i ...[text shortened]... y impossible to fix properly? But people seem to think it's worth it. I don't, but other people do.

Why don't we cancel some of the Gerald R Ford supercarriers we are buying?

Good idea.

Feel better now?

No.

Was the F22 a failure?

I can't really comment on that since i'm not a military guy. But I think a reasonable argument could be made that it was not a failure if it objectively contributed necessary added benefit to US national security over previously existing technology. The decision makers on these projects, however, pay more attention to lobbyists than costs. Bigger, faster, cooler even in the absence of a clear need.

Is the iPhone a failure?

Is the iPhone funded by taxpayers?

Hey I'm all for dismantling the US military industrial complex but I don't think the F35 specifically is a failure. I simply think it's an extremely expensive product that the US has chosen to develop so that it can maintain a technological overmatch over potential enemies.

Cut the military budget in general down and let the generals and such decide where the money goes.

YouTube : Eisenhower MIC

The post that was quoted here has been removed

F35s are much less expensive than F22s. There were low cost alternatives to the F16 too. The F20 for example.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

The Tempest, like the Typhoon it is replacing, is a high altitude fighter-interceptor not a low altitude fighter-bomber. It fills the role the F15 and F22 fill, not the role the F16 and the F35 fill.

@athousandyoung said
Hey I'm all for dismantling the US military industrial complex but I don't think the F35 specifically is a failure. I simply think it's an extremely expensive product that the US has chosen to develop so that it can maintain a technological overmatch over potential enemies.

Cut the military budget in general down and let the generals and such decide where the money goes.

[youtube Eisenhower MIC]OyBNmecVtdU[/youtube]

Can't we call it a failure since it has not contributed necessary added benefit to US national security over previously existing technology?

I am hard pressed to imagine a scenario in which we'd need to use a bunch of these to keep America safe. We have many thousands of other jets that can basically do the same thing and drones do most of the heavy lifting in terms of bombing anyways.

It's time to admit it's a failure and cut losses. The price tag of this one vehicle is the equivalent of all US student debt.