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The post that was quoted here has been removedNot how I view humanity. How I view our current civilised humanity. There's a huge difference.
How much habitat does your average beaver's dam destroy? There is a slight difference in scale.
I don't view genetically modified foods as natural. People want to play god and pretend that they're really clever, so they produce plants which produce insecticide. Brilliant plan until said plants get eaten and the eater's body gets turned into an insecticide factory. Evolution has gone on for billions of years, but we think we're better than it.
If you want to dump food on people living in a desert, so that there is no chance for the land to regenerate while the population continues to explode, then that is your folly, not mine. Until somebody comes up with a rainmaker, then I stand by my point that it is futile without giving the land a chance to recover and start producing food again. Of course, why let science get in the way when you want to play god?
So we should resign ourselves to saving gorillas and letting people die?
Well done on being a crap debater. You seem to have missed about half of my post. You know the bits where I listed the things that could be done to truly reduce world hunger longer term, and the bits where I spoke about letting people work in the fields that they are passionate about. You know, the bits which you completely ignored to try to foist a crappy position on me? 🙄
I'm happy with the way our civilised society works. Its not perfect, but an improvement on earlier times. We're living longer, we've more to eat and better quality of lives than ever before.
Says who? This is a complete misconception in my opinion, on all counts. If given the choice of spending more time with my family, more leisure time and more space, I know what I'd choose. Better quality of lives? You're joking right? That's why suicide and depression are so prevalent? Is that why 20% of all western people will suffer from mental illness at one time or another? Keep telling yourself that the way we live now is near perfect, and I'm sure you'll keep smiling while we kill the rest of the planet while playing god, and still being completely unhappy. Of course, in your opinion, buying things = better quality of life. Well done.
Now we're able to look at improving the situation of the less developed parts of the world to make life better there too.
In your opinion, I suppose you think we should chop down the amazon to "help" the poor tribes who live in it (completely happily and free of hunger, I'd contend) so that they could get television, and 100 hour per week low paid jobs, so that they could pay somebody else for food which they used to spend a couple of hours a day getting? Hey, we might even be able to give them Starbucks.
As a species we've created amazing and wonderful things.
For example?
But we are superior to other animals. That's a Fact.
In what way? In that we are superior specicidal (word? ) machines?
humanity plunders its own species for gain as much as, if not more than, it plunders other species. Our ruthlessness ensures we survive. If we lose that, then maybe we wouldn't be human?
You say I have a poor view of humanity?
You say "I'm happy with the way our civilised society works.", knowing full well that the way our civilised society works is prospering through killing other people and other species. This contradiction isn't your fault. From birth you have been told that our civilised model is perfect (ignoring all the facts to the contrary).
Tell me CFT, why do you think the first thing our civilised explorers do is commit genocide against the indigens that they encounter? Could it be so that we can maintain the misconception that our civilised society works better than anything that exists or has existed, so that we can continue killing while being "happy"?
D
Originally posted by RagnorakYou have a choice Dawking, you can live the way the caveman did or you can make use of all the things available to modern man.
Not how I view humanity. How I view our current civilised humanity. There's a huge difference.
How much habitat does your average beaver's dam destroy? There is a slight difference in scale.
I don't view genetically modified foods as natural. People want to play god and pretend that they're really clever, so they produce plants which produce ins ...[text shortened]... as existed, so that we can continue killing while being "happy"?
D
This is not a choice people had 400/500/600/....years ago (or whatever you think was the ideal time to live).
People talk about the good old days, the good old days are now and if they aren't for you, then you're doing it wrong.
Originally posted by WajomaSo, please tell me, how can I be happy murdering other humans and other species for profit? You seem to be the expert on the subject.
You have a choice Dawking, you can live the way the caveman did or you can make use of all the things available to modern man.
This is not a choice people had 400/500/600/....years ago (or whatever you think was the ideal time to live).
People talk about the good old days, the good old days are now and if they aren't for you, then you're doing it wrong.
Also, what difference was their 400 years ago to now? Or 600 years ago? Your comprehension/history skills are pretty poor if you think civilisation started 400 years ago.
You know the way you said that beings should only be kept alive if profit can be made from them? Well, how much would you pimp out your grandmother for? Or should we just kill her for being unprofitable? 🙄
Remarkable set of values you have there, kid.
I'm very happy with my life, thanks. I'm just not trying to justify slaughter of other species/people because our way of living is best or because it's profitable, like you guys are.
D
Originally posted by RagnorakDadnasty,
So, please tell me, how can I be happy murdering other humans and other species for profit? You seem to be the expert on the subject.
Also, what difference was their 400 years ago to now? Or 600 years ago? Your comprehension/history skills are pretty poor if you think civilisation started 400 years ago.
You know the way you said that beings shoul ...[text shortened]... eople because our way of living is best or because it's profitable, like you guys are.
D
I don't expect anyone except a lunatic could be happy murdering other human beings for profit, or otherwise, I am stunned at where your twisted imagination might come up with such an idea.
...and the crack about my long dead grandmother? She was a tough. independent woman who epitomised rugged individualism. Lucky for you she's dead and that this message board is anonymous, she would have kicked your whiny ass.
No I don't think civilisation started 400 years ago, it was a reply to this bitter misanthropy " Says who? This is a complete misconception in my opinion, on all counts. If given the choice of spending more time with my family, more leisure time and more space, I know what I'd choose. Better quality of lives? You're joking right? That's why suicide and depression are so prevalent? Is that why 20% of all western people will suffer from mental illness at one time or another? Keep telling yourself that the way we live now is near perfect, and I'm sure you'll keep smiling while we kill the rest of the planet while playing god, and still being completely unhappy. Of course, in your opinion, buying things = better quality of life. Well done."
Originally posted by WajomaYour smug aloofness isn't convincing. Fact is Humanity is kill each other for a profit on a daily basis; minute to minute; second to second.
I don't expect anyone except a lunatic could be happy murdering other human beings for profit, or otherwise, I am stunned at where your twisted imagination might come up with such an idea.
Originally posted by catfoodtim
But we are superior to other animals. That's a Fact.
Superior but not sustainable. We will have to enjoy it while it lasts because we are so busy thinking about how our superiority justifies our manifest destiny that we've forgotten about how with power comes responsibility.
As the earth's greatest user, we make ourselves the stewards of the earth for future generations and lesser species.
Business and government are doing their best to keep that thought our of the masses. Frankly, they have more money, expertise, and greed pushing them to succeed over the slowly growing number of humans that can pull themselves out of the fog of marketing and lies.
Get that big house; buy that big car; for god's sake, get that Guchi bag!
Don't think about the consequences of the modern pharmaceutical proliferation and all those bombs we're dropping are for "moral" reasons dammit!
Funny thing is: if it was not for the internet (originally designed for the defense program DARPA), we would not even be having this discussion.
So, in their thirst for an uninterpretable communications system they gave the public a way to tap in and communicate with each other across geographical boundaries. We take it for granted, but it's probably the single biggest reason people (even stubborn ones) are learning anything about these subject at ALL!
If the Corporation had its way, every mile of rain forest and every species that didn't bring them an immediate return would likely be gone by now.
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Originally posted by mdhall6 500 000 000 people are "happy murdering" other people?
Your smug aloofness isn't convincing. Fact is Humanity is kill each other for a profit on a daily basis; minute to minute; second to second.
Originally posted by catfoodtim
[b]But we are superior to other animals. That's a Fact.
Superior but not sustainable. We will have to enjoy it while it lasts because we are so busy thinking about how every species that didn't bring them an immediate return would likely be gone by now.[/b]
edit: "....for profit"
Originally posted by mdhallI'm sorry you'll need to follow what's going on if you're going to comment.
I'm sorry. You'll have to phrase you question in the form of an intelligible sentence.
Refer to davisantes post about 6 up from this one, hence the quote marks around "happy" "murdering" "for profit".
Originally posted by WajomaWhy worry about the gorilla? If it dies thats his fault. Not ours. Hunting him is different. But I would be more worried about tigers. THey may be dangerous but their not ugly.
I'm sorry you'll need to follow what's going on if you're going to comment.
Refer to davisantes post about 6 up from this one, hence the quote marks around "happy" "murdering" "for profit".
Originally posted by WajomaI did read it, but it's kind of hard to follow.
I'm sorry you'll need to follow what's going on if you're going to comment.
Refer to davisantes post about 6 up from this one, hence the quote marks around "happy" "murdering" "for profit".
Goes like this:
Ragnorok -- I also think that humanity's superiority complex over other animals is pretty sad. If we can slaughter animals that differ only slightly from humans for profit, then I see only a tiny step to killing other humans for profit.
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Catfoodtim -- I kind of agree with you here - but humanity plunders its own species for gain as much as, if not more than, it plunders other species. Our ruthlessness ensures we survive. If we lose that, then maybe we wouldn't be human?
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Ragnorok -- You say I have a poor view of humanity?
You say "I'm happy with the way our civilised society works.", knowing full well that the way our civilised society works is prospering through killing other people and other species. This contradiction isn't your fault. From birth you have been told that our civilised model is perfect (ignoring all the facts to the contrary).
Tell me CFT, why do you think the first thing our civilised explorers do is commit genocide against the indigens that they encounter? Could it be so that we can maintain the misconception that our civilised society works better than anything that exists or has existed, so that we can continue killing while being "happy"?
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Wajoma -- You have a choice Dawking, you can live the way the caveman did or you can make use of all the things available to modern man.
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Ragnarok -- So, please tell me, how can I be happy murdering other humans and other species for profit? You seem to be the expert on the subject.
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Wajoma -- I don't expect anyone except a lunatic could be happy murdering other human beings for profit, or otherwise, I am stunned at where your twisted imagination might come up with such an idea.
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It's a little unfair. None of that previous stream of replies to each other follows the discourse. It's like your replying to yourselves more than anything.
So, I replied to your last statement as it seems to be a stand alone comment.
Originally posted by WajomaIt wasn't a crack at your grandmother. It was a crack at your "Arbeit macht frei!" attitude.
...and the crack about my long dead grandmother? She was a tough. independent woman who epitomised rugged individualism. Lucky for you she's dead and that this message board is anonymous, she would have kicked your whiny ass.
Your 400 comment was still dumb, considering my "bitter misanthropy" followed a number of comments about civilisation.
D