@sh76 saidHindus are taking our jerbs
Anyway, even if it were possible to saturate the talented people market and depress wages, we're nowhere near that saturation point in the US today. On the contrary, we're short of talented workers, not overfull of them.
@Suzianne saidDepends on who's immigrating.
Which is why immigration has always been a big plus for the US.
If it's talented hard working people, it's awesome for the country.
If it's people who are hard working but without special talents, it's okay too, but there need to be limits.
If it's people who have no desire to work hard, it's poison for the country.
@sh76 saidNo. Not talented people. All peoples are talented.
Yes, of course, but that's a red herring.
I'm claiming that (with rare exception, I suppose), no society ever has enough talented people.
You mean educated people. You conflated talented with educated. Acknowledge that and we can have an honest discussion about it.
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@sh76 saidNo one fights through all the dangers to come here who "doesn't want to work", or who doesn't want a better life for their family. They're also not criminals, rapists or "mental".
Depends on who's immigrating.
If it's talented hard working people, it's awesome for the country.
If it's people who are hard working but without special talents, it's okay too, but there need to be limits.
If it's people who have no desire to work hard, it's poison for the country.
You're buying into Trump's rhetoric. He demeans them because they are the other.
@sh76 saidand the less they can complain about work conditions or switch jobs or unionize, the better
I'm on Musk's side. The more talented people we can get to work here, the better.
Incidentally, internal policy disagreements are good. We don't need everyone in the party to have the same opinions on everything.
@Suzianne saidAnd everyone has a talent. You just gotta find it. The lucky ones find it early enough to capitalize on it.
No one fights through all the dangers to come here who "doesn't want to work", or who doesn't want a better life for their family. They're also not criminals, rapists or "mental".
You're buying into Trump's rhetoric. He demeans them because they are the other.
@sonhouse saidTrump's talent is the flim-flam, talking people into doing what he wants. Just like Hitler. He, too, was able to mesmerize a crowd. Perhaps he's made a deal with the devil, like Robert Johnson at the crossroads.**
Like Trump, he has this talent. A talent for lying.
** Another, perhaps the first, musician to die at 27 years old.
@Suzianne saidYep, fully agree. And there is a 27 club of those rockers dying at that age.
Trump's talent is the flim-flam, talking people into doing what he wants. Just like Hitler. He, too, was able to mesmerize a crowd. Perhaps he's made a deal with the devil, like Robert Johnson at the crossroads.**
** Another, perhaps the first, musician to die at 27 years old.
“the big six”: Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, Kurt Cobain, and Amy Winehouse.
@Suzianne saidTo start with, I don't buy any of Trump's anything. I don't think he's evil per se like you do, and I think he's a talented politician, but I put almost no stock in his opinions or thoughts. Sure I agree with him sometimes. And I'm not going to back off a position just because Trump adopts it. But hey, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
No one fights through all the dangers to come here who "doesn't want to work", or who doesn't want a better life for their family. They're also not criminals, rapists or "mental".
You're buying into Trump's rhetoric. He demeans them because they are the other.
But to answer your first question, just as there are many Americans unwilling or unable to work hard and who live off the system, it's common sense that there are plenty of immigrants, legal or illegal, in the same boat. Obviously, I don't believe all or most immigrants are criminals, though of course there are their fair share of such.
The thing with any immigration policy is that the masses of immigrants, in general, have to be willing to assimilate to your culture. You can possibly make exceptions for highly talented people, I suppose. But not for everyone.
Let's say we're talking about people from Syria, for example. I'm sure many or most would-be immigrants would love to come and work hard and all that, but if you allow tens or hundreds of thousands who want to turn the non-Muslim world into a series of Caliphates, that's terrible for our society.
This is all basically obvious, even if a little politically incorrect.
@Metal-Brain saidTalented meaning that their skills are useful and difficult to find. I don't give a damn if they're really good at walking on their hands.
No. Not talented people. All peoples are talented.
You mean educated people. You conflated talented with educated. Acknowledge that and we can have an honest discussion about it.
People could be very talented baristas or janitors, but nobody cares because these are trivial skills that many people can do. We don't need to import baristas. But engineers, mathematicians, scientists, data analysts, etc. We need more of them, not less.
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@sh76 saidSince when is someone's political ideology or "culture" relevant to their desirability for immigration status?
To start with, I don't buy any of Trump's anything. I don't think he's evil per se like you do, and I think he's a talented politician, but I put almost no stock in his opinions or thoughts. Sure I agree with him sometimes. And I'm not going to back off a position just because Trump adopts it. But hey, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
But to answer your first questi ...[text shortened]... terrible for our society.
This is all basically obvious, even if a little politically incorrect.
I could see if they are violent extremists but that doesn't appear to be the criteria you are using.
It stands to reason that people who wish to immigrate to the US are generally more ambitious than those who don't or even those who are born here. Plus they generally tend to be younger and more productive. This has all been verified by numerous studies.
EDIT: Here's a relevant one: Despite the hatred directed at immigrants and refugees coming to the United States and other western nations, a new report suggests that children of migrants are the ones realizing the upward mobility of the American dream, rising out of poverty at higher rates than the children of parents born in the US. Similar trends can be found in other parts of the world too, like Canada. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/nurturing-resilience/201910/why-do-immigrants-outperform-native-born-americans?msockid=17b4b52994316743009fa715954f666b
In sum, US immigration policy is far too restrictive NOW which contributes to the illegal immigration problem.
@sh76 saidExcept those type of jobs are the ones most impacted by the US labor shortage:
Talented meaning that their skills are useful and difficult to find. I don't give a damn if they're really good at walking on their hands.
People could be very talented baristas or janitors, but nobody cares because these are trivial skills that many people can do. We don't need to import baristas. But engineers, mathematicians, scientists, data analysts, etc. We need more of them, not less.
"Jobs that are fully in-person and traditionally have lower wages have had a more difficult time retaining workers, even prior to the pandemic. For example, the leisure and hospitality industry has experienced the highest quit rates of all industries, with the accommodation and food services subsector of this industry experiencing a quit rate consistently around or above 4 percent since July 2022."
https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage-the-most-impacted-industries