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Originally posted by sasquatch672So you think our existence is damned? That sounds pretty
I liked everything up to the last paragraph.
(Here comes the spirituality forum.)
There is no suggestion whatsoever that there is a multiverse. This is the ultimate unknowable thing. I believe in God, and I believe that some divine hand called into existence that infinitesmally small band of energy that became our universe. Or that that energy ...[text shortened]... about what lies beyond. I think for humanity's sake we should stick to our own damn existence.
heathen and barbaric to me.
Anyway I said that was just speculation, is that the part of the
last paragraph you didn't like?
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Originally posted by sonhouseI do agree with your idea of multiple "Universes".
Personally I think our universe represents only a local bubble in
a possibly infinite bigger universe(the multiverse) with many
bubbles each one a whole universe of its own, linked by higher
dimensions. For now thats just speculation but it makes sense to me.
Just like it is foolish of us to think we are the only form of life in the universe, it is foolish to think our universe is unique.
Think of the concept of self similarity (ala chaos theory and fractal images) that is plainly seen in every aspect of our physical reality as we can understand it (we do not yet full understand everything at the atomic level, quantum, or otherwise. )
The formation of stars is basically a mere flash or pulsation of matter contracting and expanding. We see it every where. Galaxies are another example of this. Our universe maybe just another example.
I am no authority or guineas on the matter, but this is not a difficult hypothesis to arrive at.
So our "universe" is obviously very old, but guessing at this is only part of the puzzle. I think understanding gravity in our phyical world and understanding the foreces of quantom physica will finally show us our piece of the puzzle.
related mind bending reading.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/quantum-computer.htm
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"The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa."
--Heisenberg, uncertainty paper, 1927
"So just looking at a particle will disturb its position. The photons of light you need to see it will push it into a new location!"
Sounds like religion to me. Its fine to look for it, but when you believe you understand it, its because its only what you wanted to see or believe. Or something like that.
One mans heaven, or understanding, will differ from another's. So if "God and heaven is supposed to be perfection, how can that be to everyone. Quantum mechanics shows many simultaneous possibilities, but is there only one answer?
For there to be perfection, or one answer to everything. the answer must be nothing at all. A nothingness. I do believe somer religions ponder this idea in its philosophy.
But who wants that when you can have forty-two virgins?
Originally posted by Raw760Einstein showed that time was relative to us.
"The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa."
--Heisenberg, uncertainty paper, 1927
"So just looking at a particle will disturb its position. The photons of light you need to see it will push it into a new location!"
Sounds like religion to me. Its fine to look fo ...[text shortened]... s ponder this idea in its philosophy.
But who wants that when you can have forty-two virgins?
Young showed us that we influence what we see.
Heisenburg showed us that we can never fully understand what we see.
My point is that the position and momentum of matter and hence the
material world is purely a mental construct. We are nothing more
than measuring devices that are capable of using tools for introspection
What would the universe 'look like', if there were no conciousness?
By the merit of there even being a universe we must also concede that
'nothingness' as we know it is also a man made construct.
I don't want to lower this into a religious debate as I am atheist and
don't believe in when the going gets tough, sing a hymn about how great
and mysterious it all is. This is a scientific question.
What is the role of conciousness in defining our universe?
How much influence does consciousness have on celestial matter?
Is it possible for there to even be a universe without a consciousness
to observe it?
If the answer to the last question is 'no' then we find ourselves
once again at the centre of our universe.
(until we have proof of other lifeforms)
We no longer stand for insignificance in a massive chaotic jumble but
as our very own creators.
I wish we really did think like this and then maybe we all might have
more respect and value for human life.
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What is the role of conciousness in defining our universe?I a tree falls in a forest. and no one is there, does it make a sound?
How much influence does consciousness have on celestial matter?
Is it possible for there to even be a universe without a consciousness
to observe it?
How very Zen.
I tried to answer this to myself, with out giving a second reply of, "but how do you know."
This is how I would know.
Sound is only our "perception" transferred kinetic energy through matter, in this case air, kinetic waves in the air reaching our ears.
If you were deaf, and you light a stick of dynamite in your hand, the transferred kinetic energy to the air would blow you to bits.
with out our perceptions, some thing still remain "true".
If you were blind, you could still get a sunburn. But we cannot see the rays that burns us anyway, so we are all very blind.
You guys sound like Carl Sagan did when he was hitting the bong and dreaming of the billions and billions of habitable planets out there...Maybe we are all just lint in some giant's closet!
we are miniscule in the order of things and the universe will be here long after the husks of our corpses have turned to dust....
have a nice day and enjoy the short time you are here!😀
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Originally posted by steve645I made a bong out of my telescope!!! 🙄
You guys sound like Carl Sagan did when he was hitting the bong and dreaming of the billions and billions of habitable planets out there...have a nice day and enjoy the short time you are here!😀
Killer One-Hitter-Quitter 😵
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Originally posted by Raw760I heard that all death is caused by lack of Oxygen to the
I a tree falls in a forest. and no one is there, does it make a sound?
How very Zen.
I tried to answer this to myself, with out giving a second reply of, "but how do you know."
This is how I would know.
Sound is only our "perception" transferred kinetic energy through matter, in this case air, kinetic waves in the air reaching our ears.
If you ...[text shortened]... still get a sunburn. But we cannot see the rays that burns us anyway, so we are all very blind.
brain but a stick of dynamite would say otherwise.
You are confusing sense with consciousness. Sense is a
method of interpreting events.
Conciousness is an understanding of an object and/or
event in relation to self.
In the case you deftly outlined. If I had a stick of dynamite
but no consciousness then 'I' would not understand the concept
self and therefore 'I' would not be blown to bits.
The same goes for the universe, which we consider an 'it'.
Without consciousness there would be no 'it' and so, no
question of 'what could it be'.
In relation to this post, that would mean the universe can into
being when conciousness did.
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Originally posted by Thequ1ckWhat would the universe 'look like', if there were no consciousness?
Conciousness is an understanding of an object and/or
event in relation to self.
In the case you deftly outlined. If I had a stick of dynamite
but no consciousness then 'I' would not understand the concept
self and therefore 'I' would not be blown to bits.
The same goes for the universe, which we consider an 'it'.
Without consciousness there would be no 'it' and so, no
question of 'what could it be'.
It would look exactly as it does now.
How much influence does consciousness have on celestial matter?
None whatsoever.
Is it possible for there to even be a universe without a consciousness to observe it?
Yes, Absolutely definately maybe. (I thought we already cut down that F-ing tree!)
Sensory perception and consciousness are not unrelated. Understanding is dependant on perception, whether it is human sensory perception or through the use of scientific tools such as radio and infrared telescope imaging and electron microscopes to understand beyond our limited perception.
Broadly speaking, several of the main features of our contemporary philosophical concept of consciousness - in particular its alleged privacy, ineffability, and subjectivity - first arise historically from tensions present in the analytical attempt to describe the relationship of language and meaning to experience, in such a way as to make the structure of logic and language relevant to defining the structure of experience and characterizing its relationship to objective knowledge about the physical world.
This makes my head hurt 😕
http://www07.homepage.villanova.edu/paul.livingston/Experience%20and%20Structure.pdf
http://consc.net/online1.html