Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Behind the scenes
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    05 Mar '18 15:241 edit
    Just looking for predictions here, but lost in all the Trump supporters claims about a Liberal witch hunt, I'd like to remind these folks that Rob Rosenstein, Jeff Sessions, and Robert Mueller were all appointed by Republicans, in addition Mr. Mueller ran the FBI for many years and is highly respected on both sides of the partisan fence. Now that we have that out, let me give my prediction:

    We are not at the beginning of the end here, we're at the end of the beginning. Mr. Mueller wouldn't have assembled a team of over a dozen prosecutors to help him if there was nothing to investigate. Mr. Kushner, Donald Jr. and our pretty little princess Ivanka will all be charged with at least one, if not multiple felonies involving financial crimes. Donald Trump will be charged with at least one, if not multiple impeachable offences. President Trump's chances of keeping his job as President is uncertain at best, and (if the Democrats retake the house) dim at worst. OH, one last thing. If Trump is impeached and loses his seat as President, I also predict Melania will take Baron and move back to Europe, since it's clear she thinks he's a repulsive pig.

    Does anyone else care to make a prediction? 🙂
  2. Standard membervivify
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    05 Mar '18 15:336 edits
    Collussion will be proved, but nothing will happen. Trump's base won't care, neither will any other Republican. Trump will pardon anyone sentenced due to the investigation.

    Dems will complain, Reps will say "what about Hillary" (or now, "what about Bernie)". All will continue as (what's become) normal.
  3. Joined
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    05 Mar '18 16:43
    People around Trump will be dragged through the mud, but Trump is going nowhere. At least one person should go to jail to help look this somewhat legitimate and not a witch hunt.

    The left is more afraid of Pence I think.

    The left will drag this out through the next 2 election cycles, however. That is the real goal.

    Monkies just sling poo. Nothing much ever comes of it.
  4. Joined
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    05 Mar '18 17:04
    The swamp will still be there. 😴
  5. Joined
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    05 Mar '18 17:382 edits
    Originally posted by @mghrn55
    The swamp will still be there. 😴
    Amen.

    It's not really that hard to dig up any dirt on anyone in Washington. They are all so power hungry it would not surprise me that they were all sociopaths and broken enough laws to spend the rest of their lives in prison. Charley Rangel was found guilty of about 20 or so ethics violations and no one batted an eye.

    The key is, don't get out of line and the good old boys club will look the other way.

    It reminds me of Obama when he went to appoint people to cabinet positions About half of them were found to have not paid their taxes. All but one dropped out, the one being a man who headed the IRS. Naturally, nothing bad happened to those found not paying their taxes.

    You just can't make this stuff up. Hysterical! 😵
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    05 Mar '18 21:431 edit
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Just looking for predictions here, but lost in all the Trump supporters claims about a Liberal witch hunt, I'd like to remind these folks that Rob Rosenstein, Jeff Sessions, and Robert Mueller were all appointed by Republicans, in addition Mr. Mueller ran the FBI for many years and is highly respected on both sides of the partisan fence. Now that we have tha ...[text shortened]... it's clear she thinks he's a repulsive pig.

    Does anyone else care to make a prediction? 🙂
    I think it's highly likely major figures in the administration get indicted.

    I think it fairly likely Trump gets impeached or resigns in disgrace (well, even more disgrace).

    I don't think Republicans in Washington are as willing to fall on their sword to save Trump as some think. He wants badly to fire Mueller as the ultimate act of obstruction of justice, but it has been made clear that this would be politically suicidal. So Mueller will finisn (probably declaring Donald Trump an "un-indicted co-conspirator as Nixon was), Trump's low popularity ratings will plummet even further and enough Republicans will turn on him to force him out.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    05 Mar '18 21:44
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Amen.

    It's not really that hard to dig up any dirt on anyone in Washington. They are all so power hungry it would not surprise me that they were all sociopaths and broken enough laws to spend the rest of their lives in prison. Charley Rangel was found guilty of about 20 or so ethics violations and no one batted an eye.

    The key is, don't get out of li ...[text shortened]... ed to those found not paying their taxes.

    You just can't make this stuff up. Hysterical! 😵
    Actually, you can and do "make this stuff up".
  8. Standard membervivify
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    05 Mar '18 22:36
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    He wants badly to fire Mueller as the ultimate act of obstruction of justice, but it has been made clear that this would be politically suicidal.
    How many times has that been said of Trump?

    "Oh, Trump is done now."
    "No, this time, he's gone."
    "Wow, there's no way he can come back from that."
    "Now seriously, I think THIS is it...."

    The number of things Trump has said or done that would be "political suicide" for any other politician is uncountable now. When Trump said he could shoot someone in broad daylight and still not lose voters (which also would've tanked anyone else's career), I don't think that was just posturing. I think that's the God's-honest truth.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    05 Mar '18 22:471 edit
    Originally posted by @vivify
    How many times has that been said of Trump?

    "Oh, Trump is done now."
    "No, this time, he's gone."
    "Wow, there's no way he can come back from that."
    "Now seriously, I think THIS is it...."

    The number of things Trump has said or done that would be "political suicide" for any other politician is uncountable now. When Trump said he could shoot someon ...[text shortened]... e else's career), I don't think that was just posturing. I think that's the God's-honest truth.
    Then you're buying fairy dust. Trump is the least popular President at this point in the history of modern polling. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

    Tell me why he hasn't fired Mueller then.
  10. Standard membervivify
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    05 Mar '18 23:091 edit
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Then you're buying fairy dust. Trump is the least popular President at this point in the history of modern polling. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

    Tell me why he hasn't fired Mueller then.
    You and I had this same conversation when Trump was running, where you repeated how stupid I was for thinking Trump would win. You said Trump was too unpopular; I pointed out that nothing Trump does seems to affect his base; you kept saying how stupid I was, and posted links with stats and numbers. Trump won.

    I'm dumbfounded as to how any Democrat or liberal can keep thinking Trump is just as vulnerable to "political suicide" as normal politicians. He's not.

    Let me ask you this: if Trump fires Mueller, do you believe Trump's base will stop supporting him?
  11. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    05 Mar '18 23:27
    Originally posted by @whodey
    People around Trump will be dragged through the mud, but Trump is going nowhere. At least one person should go to jail to help look this somewhat legitimate and not a witch hunt.

    The left is more afraid of Pence I think.

    The left will drag this out through the next 2 election cycles, however. That is the real goal.

    Monkies just sling poo. Nothing much ever comes of it.
    I agree that this will be consistently dragged out.

    It's siege warfare. It distracts the current administration and it gives the Democratic base what they want.

    We may be entering a new age of permanent lawfare if the GOP grows a pair and knows what is best for themselves.
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Mar '18 00:071 edit
    Originally posted by @vivify
    You and I had this same conversation when Trump was running, where you repeated how stupid I was for thinking Trump would win. You said Trump was too unpopular; I pointed out that nothing Trump does seems to affect his base; you kept saying how stupid I was, and posted links with stats and numbers. Trump won.

    I'm dumbfounded as to how any Democrat or ...[text shortened]... t me ask you this: if Trump fires Mueller, do you believe Trump's base will stop supporting him?
    You seem to think Trump's base is over 50% of the population. I believe he could and probably would drop to about 25% approval rating if Mueller finds him an un-indicted co-conspirator. That won't be enough to save him even if he retains majority Republican support; Nixon always did (if barely) and we know what happened.

    You're exaggerating our discussions during the election; I never said it was impossible that Trump would win. And Trump didn't win because of his base; that wouldn't have been enough to elect him. Rather he won because he took a hefty margin among those who disliked both him and Hillary in a few key States (helped by the late Comey letter).

    EDIT: I know this is just boring old numbers when we should rely on your media fed impressions but:

    Nearly 18 million voters cast ballots this election despite believing that neither Donald Trump nor Hillary Clinton were qualified to be president.

    It was an astonishing dilemma created by two campaigns whose dominant message was that their opponent was unfit.
    Those who agreed with both campaigns may have decided the election.
    This disillusioned group -- 14% of all voters -- broke heavily for Trump: 69% to 15%, according to exit polls.

    https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-voters-dislike/index.html
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Mar '18 00:21
    For the rest of his presidency, Nixon maintained a loyal core constituency of about 25 percent of those polled who approved of his performance as president. But most people held a negative view of his presidency, with disapproval ratings in the mid-60s.

    https://historyinpieces.com/research/nixon-approval-ratings

    Nixon held his base, but he was forced out. I don't see anything different happening under Trump assuming Mueller finds him an un-indicted co-conspirator - if anything Trump is more vulnerable because he is widely disliked by many Republican insiders while Nixon was the ultimate Republican insider for decades.
  14. Standard membervivify
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    06 Mar '18 00:28
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    You seem to think Trump's base is over 50% of the population. I believe he could and probably would drop to about 25% approval rating if Mueller finds him an un-indicted co-conspirator. That won't be enough to save him even if he retains majority Republican support; Nixon always did (if barely) and we know what happened.

    You're exaggerating our discu ...[text shortened]... g those who disliked both him and Hillary in a few key States (helped by the late Comey letter).
    Trump's base affects other Republicans. Steve Bannon was forced to resign from a magazine he founded, due to the ire of Trump fans. He has the largest cable news station in the U.S. actively supporting and defending him at every turn; that's in addition to Alex Jones' millions of fans, and every alt-right medium. As such, few Republicans criticize Trump, other than a few who announced they were no longer seeking reelection.

    Furthermore, Republicans want to keep a facade of unity in the party; that's why Trump received a record number of standing ovations during the SOTU.

    Trump's base doesn't have to be over 50%. It has to be enough so that it will influence the rest of the GOP, which it definitely is. Any Republicans who'd criticize Trump are the ones who seem to risk career suicide, like Bannon, That's why I doubt even firing Mueller could sink Trump.

    And there's also the fact that America has gotten so used to Trump's blatant lying, buffoonery and corruption, that firing Mueller would be as quickly forgotten as when Trump gave classified intel to Russians, while being under investigation for colluding with them.
  15. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Mar '18 00:53
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Trump's base affects other Republicans. Steve Bannon was forced to resign from a magazine he founded, due to the ire of Trump fans. He has the largest cable news station in the U.S. actively supporting and defending him at every turn; that's in addition to Alex Jones' millions of fans, and every alt-right medium. As such, few Republicans criticize Trump, ...[text shortened]... rump gave classified intel to Russians, while being under investigation for colluding with them.
    Then answer my question; why hasn't Trump fired Mueller? If he can get away with anything according to you, why wait? He desperately wants the investigation ended and sweeping away Rosenstein, Mueller and the rest would be the best chance of doing so.

    So again; why doesn't he do it?
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