@wajoma saidFor a small business, those costs are typically dwarfed by the cost of setting up the business (e.g. a building for a bakery, equipment, staff). You don't even pay significant taxes unless your business makes a healthy profit.
Finance to cover licensing, permits, taxes and an accountant.
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@kazetnagorra saidhttps://smallbusiness.chron.com/requirements-athome-bakery-business-california-12444.html
For a small business, those costs are typically dwarfed by the cost of setting up the business (e.g. a building for a bakery, equipment, staff). You don't even pay significant taxes unless your business makes a healthy profit.
kaka logic 🙄
@wajoma saidFinance to cover;
Finance to cover licensing, permits, taxes and an accountant.
Stock, premises, tooling.
And YES, you have to meet certain requirements.
You have to be safe.
NOT endanger employees.
NOT endanger customers.
NOT endanger the environment.
So that others do not have their LIBERTY jeopardised.
@no1marauder saidNo, Wajoma is correct. Govt (the island councilor?) could cause it to fail if it attempts to immerse itself into someone’s business. Govt needs to protect island from invaders, and keep peace. That is it. Then capitalism naturally takes over. I sell you a sandwich and you build a railroad if you’d like. Beautiful. Some guy may like to fly kites. Beautiful. No govt. A guy opens a bank.
Actually the biggest hindrance is lack of access to capital, which is also the #1 cause of small business failures. Banks are more in the speculation business now; what funds they do lend out now are largely reserved for large enterprises.
@no1marauder saidYes, some people are sick. The island council, as does the United States of America , would set up programs for truly destitute and sick. Covered by taxes, don’t you see. Medical, food, shelter for these poor people. Able-bodied People who are not poor, they get nothing free. They just have to figure out how to not starve. Work, maybe. No handouts. Open a sandwich shop, get successful, sell shares in the business, THEN they go fly Kites! Just like the United States of America !
If you're talking about the "democratic socialism" that AOC and Bernie talk about, it is fairly minor reforms of the capitalist system such as are widely practiced in Western and Northern Europe. If implemented, they would make society a lot more efficient and pleasant while increasing freedom (people who are sick but can't afford a doctor aren't that "free" for example). ...[text shortened]... .e. for the mutual protection and benefit of all not to establish a plutocracy to dominate the rest.
@no1marauder saidI’m assuming the worker has made good choices in life. He has opportunity (Obama Bernie never use that word) and plenty of choices to get ahead. He doesn’t even HAVE a family if he isn’t yet making good money, that living wage y’all keep mentioning. You say ‘whatever owner wishes to pay’ Turn that around to read ‘whatever worker decides to accept’. You seem to be demeaning and belittling a man who wants to make something of himself. And raise a family. You know, some of your posts suggest that I and his neighbors should raise his family??
There's not much that is "voluntary" when one owns the means of production and the other must sell his labor at whatever the owner wishes to pay or the worker and his family starve.
@wolfgang59 saidIt could be nothing but capitalism if each person sets about plying his trade. Eat what you kill, as they say? I kill a rabbit or make money fixing sandals. Do you think I should give part of the rabbit or my sandal earnings to somebody else? What in the world for? That would be Socialism. Which makes more sense to you? Would You ask me for my stuff? Why?
Do you think that the society they create will be more akin to socialism or capitalism?
And who is more valuable to that society?
The doctor, the fisherman, the builder?
As to who is most valuable, I don’t know. Prob the guy who works harder and who people rely on for what he does, or produces. They may nickname him the golden goose, make a seat at church for him on the front row!
@wolfgang59 saidWhoah, abusing the capital's there, you're using up some of the ones your bud zahlooney avoids. Trying to balance the books.
Finance to cover;
Stock, premises, tooling.
And YES, you have to meet certain requirements.
You have to be safe.
NOT endanger employees.
NOT endanger customers.
NOT endanger the environment.
So that others do not have their LIBERTY jeopardised.
@wajoma saidYes, but he is coming over to our way of thinking!!! He is acknowledging The role of the government, as keeping the peace. Not a word about govt controlling the lives of the islanders!
Whoah, abusing the capital's there, you're using up some of the ones your bud zahlooney avoids. Trying to balance the books.
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@no1marauder saidSo as we see, you continue to point to corporations
Illinois seems to be doing pretty well: The economy of Illinois is the fifth largest by GDP in the United States and one of the most diversified economies in the world.[9] The Chicago metropolitan area is home to many of the United States' largest companies, including Allstate, Boeing, Caterpillar, Kraft Heinz, McDonald's, Motorola, United Airlines, Walgreens, and more. ...[text shortened]... inois#cite_note-10
Why do those corporate giants stay in such a socialist hellhole as California?
Are corporations the key to socialism?
Does anyone find it odd that all of the heads of the corporate giants tend to be Democrats?
Oh, and the whole homeless thingy. Is the rampant homelessness in these high tax rate high cost of living corporate utopias the model for the rest of the country?
https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/California-s-homelessness-crisis-moves-to-the-12182026.php
So there you have it, you have the elites living in their gated communities and the homeless drug users that far outnumber them
No matter, California has a great economy.
Yay.
@averagejoe1 saidSince you like this island analogy, I'll give you what would actually happen under capitalist principles using the characters from a beloved 60's sitcom:
No, Wajoma is correct. Govt (the island councilor?) could cause it to fail if it attempts to immerse itself into someone’s business. Govt needs to protect island from invaders, and keep peace. That is it. Then capitalism naturally takes over. I sell you a sandwich and you build a railroad if you’d like. Beautiful. Some guy may like to fly kites. Beautiful. No govt. A guy opens a bank.
The SS Minnow carrying two crew, Gilligan, the Skipper, too, and five passengers, the Millionaire and his wife, the Movie Star, the Professor and Marianne, sets sail for a three hour tour. During the voyage, the weather starts getting rough and the tiny ship is tossed eventually setting down on the shore of an uncharted desert isle.
The seven castaways first take a look around the island and then gather near the lagoon to decide what they should do since rescue seems impossible, at least in the short run. They draw a map of the island in the sand. The first to speak is the Professor, an obviously learned man who knows that when humans were in small groups in the Natural State the best survival strategy was based on egalitarian cooperation:
Professor: "Ok, what we have to do is work together and equally share what we obtain in order that all members of the group have the maximal chance to live and thrive."
Gilligan, the Skipper, Ginger, Marianne (all being empathic , social creatures like normal humans): "Yes, that makes sense."
But Thurston Howell the 3rd, having been raised in the family of a wealthy capitalist and having absorbed the anti-social attitudes of that group (which AJ and Wajoma parrot) shakes his head vigorously.
TH3: No, no, no, you all know that Lovey and I have ten times the combined wealth of everybody else here and that makes me a far greater producer than you. Thus, I am entitled to this much of the island as my private property from which you will be excluded" (he draws a line across the map giving himself and his wife 90% of the island).
The others are aghast. The Skipper speaks up:
Skipper: "There is no way there are adequate resources on the 10% of the island you have allotted us for our survival; we will all surely die of starvation."
TH3: "Well if you voluntarily agree to build and maintain huts for my wife and myself, gather and grow food for us to eat and do whatever other tasks I direct you to to make our lives more comfortable, I will let you keep a small amount of food."
Should the other five take the deal?
Should the workers of the world?
@wajoma saidI read the article. There's two interesting points about this.
@no1marauder
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article212213524.html
Childs lemonade stand requiring very little capital to start up gets shut down by regs. No.1 get's excited and starts power tripping.
1) The first is that the regulation prevents people from setting up an unlicenced stall in a park. The regulation would not have prevented them from setting up a stall on their own drive. The regulation exists to prevent a tragedy of the commons.
2) The police would not have acted without a complaint. The complaint was received from other lemonade stall holders who had paid for a licence and did not want to be undercut by an unlicenced stall.
So, it wasn't regulations stopping them setting up a business, it was attempting to operate the business from a location the owner of which hadn't been consulted about. Or do you think private property rights should not be protected?
@no1marauder saidI love analogies, yes. And point taken as far as you being on the right track. But Millionaire, ...no matter how he was raised, no matter if he has a suitcase full of millions in USD....he is equal with everyone. If they draw a constitution, it will start 'All (of us) are created equal as we arrive here'. He is equal. Equality. (his money-laden suitcase is of course, worthless) So this negates that part of your argument.
Since you like this island analogy, I'll give you what would actually happen under capitalist principles using the characters from a beloved 60's sitcom:
The SS Minnow carrying two crew, Gilligan, the Skipper, too, and five passengers, the Millionaire and his wife, the Movie Star, the Professor and Marianne, sets sail for a three hour tour. During the voyage, the weat ...[text shortened]... small amount of food."
Should the other five take the deal?
Should the workers of the world?
Millionaire has no value.....or does he? Each person there has value which is measured by what they can bring to the table. Millionaire can certainly count, so he can count coconuts and the number of fresh water springs on the island. Meanwhile, Skipper is a carpenter, Gilligan cooks, Scientist has meetings every day about survival, and so on. The girls handle food, clothing, yoga class.
So, in this scenario, yes, looks like socialism, collectivism, whatever. They can live happily ever after, not unlike a tribe in Borneo. This is what you are saying. BUT, what if a Carnival Cruise liner and 40 other cruise ships get caught in a huge storm.....and a medium size island nearby gets uprooted and arrives at our island shore? Man,, we have just had increase in population!!! Well, now let us look at 2,000,000 people on the island! Size of Norway? The millionaire, with his brain and productive capacity, would be President, they'd have to have a president. And a government......and some people work harder than others, create and sell goods. There will be loafers, to whom nothing is owed. They will starve, I guess. I cant think of one thing that would be 'free' for him.
And there you have it. Little bitty island, Borneo, or , BIG island, USA. Cant be run the same. See Venezuala.