Good, bad or indifferent?
In my view, I am not utterly opposed to these, but I have a few problems:
1) The government is proposing that althought they are 'optional' to begin with there will be a charge of £80 for them, £250 if you want it with your passport.
2) In the future, not having one will mean you are not entitled to state health care, making a mockery of the term optional
3)You will have to inform the government within 3 days of moving house or suffer £1000 fine
4)The government claim that the cards will be instrumental in reducing crime, especially terrorism, immigration etc. This is plainly b@ll@cks. It may help police catch a small amount of people from time to time, but it will not be preventative at all. It is playing on people's insecurities and adopting the sort of scare tactics that America seems to be fond of.
5)The supposed optionality of these cards may well change on a slow basis over the next ten years until we are no better than a police state.
6)There can be no assurance of the security of this sensitive data. The government here is increasingly riddled with problems of confidentiality.
7)The new scheme will require millions of pounds to install, administrate, safeguard and update. Money which will be rasied from taxes.
8)The fact that there are cards in other countries and that system works fine does not mean that there is a need for such things here. Let us not forget, we won't necessarily see any benefit of them. They should only be introduced if there can be a demonstrateable benefit, not just because other countries operate similar systems.
9)We live in a failing democracy unfortunately, so there's not much hope of this, but... The government should offer referendums on such things and not claim there is overwhelming public support (which is plainly untrue). Using selective market research polls is not a suitable way of backing up your ideas.
10)The data held on these cards may be innocuous at firs (in which case what's the point of them?), but may extend in the future to hold much more serious data. The implications of ID Card fraud on the stability of people lives are possible.
11)Human rights, pure and simply, I am somewhat concerned that ID Cards may develop into a freedom constricting process and as a leading devloped democratic country I wonder if we should have to resort to such measures.
Well, just a few thoughts there, you may or may not agree with some all of them. I for one would be more inclined to consider the purposefulness of the cards, were the government to address some of these issues. Well, over to you people 🙂
Originally posted by StarrmanI'm not too concerned about the "sensitive information" aspect of the cards. Lets face it, everyone from our bank to our supermarket (if you have a loyalty card) has our personal information.
Good, bad or indifferent?
In my view, I am not utterly opposed to these, but I have a few problems:
1) The government is proposing that althought they are 'optional' to begin with there will be a charge of £80 for them, £250 if you want it with your passport.
2) In the future, not having one will mean you are not entitled to state health care, maki ...[text shortened]... of the cards, were the government to address some of these issues. Well, over to you people 🙂
Sure, I've known a few people who have never had a bank account or store card because they are concerned about who knows what about them (usually paranoid pot-heads...) but most people have divulged their personal information to many different companies and organisations.
I'm not too concerned about the "sensitive information" aspect of the cards. Lets face it, everyone from our bank to our supermarket (if you have a loyalty card) has our personal information.This is true, but it doesn't follow that we shouldn't be concerned about it. After all, even the departed home secretary advised of the need to protect the public from misuse of personal information collected through loyalty cards - bless the lovelorn right wing rascal.
I'm opposed to them for a number of reasons, but I won't go into them since you've already put them forward. I will say that I'm one of those people who have no birth certificate (lost it), no NI card (ditto), no passport, no driving license, no photographic ID of any kind, have never been fingerprinted or had any other form of permanent identification taken (DNA test for example) and have never been registered on any electoral roll (I'm 23).
Apart from the lack of existing ID, I have no way of getting photographic ID since I don't know anyone of the list of individuals judged "repectable" enough to countersign the paperwork. I'm waiting for them to become compulsory so I can have a chat with the arresting officer, specifically along the lines of "If I had the abilty to get some bloody ID, I'd've done it by now, and if you're sure enough of my identity to arrest with under that name, sign the form(s) for me".
Originally posted by shortgoth1Often you get photo ID at work, or a University card, or something. Even if you don't have a NI card you will have a NI number as it is issued to you. You (or the Inland Revenue) will need it if you ever pay tax or claim benefit. So do you not have a job or go to university, or claim benefit?
I'm opposed to them for a number of reasons, but I won't go into them since you've already put them forward. I will say that I'm one of those people who have no birth certificate (lost it), no NI card (ditto), no passport, no driving license, no photographic ID of any kind, have never been fingerprinted or had any other form of permanent identificatio ...[text shortened]... if you're sure enough of my identity to arrest with under that name, sign the form(s) for me".
Originally posted by StarrmanI wish I had more time right now, but here goes...
Good, bad or indifferent?
In my view, I am not utterly opposed to these, but I have a few problems:
1) The government is proposing that althought they are 'optional' to begin with there will be a charge of £80 for them, £250 if you want it with your passport.
2) In the future, not having one will mean you are not entitled to state health care, maki ...[text shortened]... of the cards, were the government to address some of these issues. Well, over to you people 🙂
1) your right, 250 quid is taking the mick! Even 80 per person in a poor household is more than crippling.
2) don't understand your point. State healthcare provides healthcare to the people who are members of the state, who'll have ID cards. I'd be very interested to know how foreginers/assylum seakers etc would be handled by the system, and if it would be fairly.
3) the moving house fine is true for your driving licence already, and quite possibly for other official documentation that are accepted as 'proof' of identity. 3 days seemsa bit tight though!
4) how can having an ID system that's vastly harder to forge than a piece of paper not have some positive effect on crime? Who cares if the police are able to check who I am and where I live, unless I've got something to hide? How can you be so sure that it won't have a significant possitive effect? Illegal immigration would be easier to spot for a start, hopefully encouraging people to use the official (if frustrating) route.
Do you mean there playing on scare tactics to help pass the bill? Maybe, but after you have one an ID card sits next to your credit cards and barely gets noticed by anyone, least of all causing the owner stress.
5) I agree that the cards will probably become compulsary very quickly. The only people to carry cards optionally would be those who had nothing to hide, making the systm worthless. But how does this automatically make us a 'police state'?
6) practically everyone has all of their details available to anyone who can switch on a PC. The ID card would be more secure than other sources, like you hospital records for a start!
7) Yep, it'll cost money which'll come from us. But is the government not like any business, making decisions based on long term financial sense? (where poloiticians are concerned I use 'sense' in the loosest possible terms).
8) this doesn't make sense to me either. OK, we shouldn't addopt cards just because otehrs have them, but why not use the experience gained by other countries as to the lack of harm and benefit to be gained from having a card system?
9) I don't like democracy, but it's the best we've got. The problem with referendums is that the majority decides - go down your local boozer and you'll quickly notice that the majority is pretty clueless and I don't want them voting on issues that effect me when their knowledge and opinions on the matter are limited to what the Sun has told them to think.
10) again, ID fraud is already huge and there's much easier ways to get the data than the ID cards will provide. The fear of serious data being held ofr sinister purposes is held by many, but what is it based on? What type of data wouldn't you want on the card? Some would say medical records, but I'd quite like the paramedic to be able to scan the card and know my blood group and alergies instantly if I have a car crash.
11) 'big brother' fear is what seems to amke most people not want the system, with images of armed police checking that we're not past curfew on the street corners. I see this fear as the same as people who refuse to have bank accounts because then the government will know their details - yes, they will , but there not doing anything to breech our rights with that so why would they with this? If they want data on us the have it already.
Damn, that was longer than intended, and probably not well structured or properly thought out. To summarise, I support the ID card system because most of the arguments I hear against it seem to be based on fansifull "but what if they use it against us" fears, where as the potential benefits, direct benefits to you and me, are clear.
I've a real problem with ID cards.
I don't think people realise the implications of widespread use of National ID cards. Its not just so that cops can stop u on the street and find out for sure where u live. Once they have been integrated and everybody has one, then you will be required to present your ID card for a multitude of transactions. Like travel. This transaction request can then be permitted or denied.
They would turn private personal transactions into public transactions. And anybody thinking that the corrupt heads of state of England and america wouldn't use and abuse this power for their own ends is living in a dream world.
D
Forget about ID cards. By next year, 95% of debit/credit cards in Europe will be smart cards instead of magnetic cards. Asia is also migrating to these EMV (Europay, MasterCard, Visa) smart cards, with the Middle East, South America and Canada likely to follow. The driver is the reduction of the multi-billion dollar fraud industry and the conversion is locked in by law. So, technically, a lot of what we do will be tracable anyway.
Originally posted by RagnorakLike a passport you mean?
Once they have been integrated and everybody has one, then you will be required to present your ID card for a multitude of transactions. Like travel.
I would think that if ID cards ever become universal and compulsory, they would replace the need for pasports and driving licences, etc.
Originally posted by VargYou only need a passport for travel between 2 different countries.
Like a passport you mean?
I would think that if ID cards ever become universal and compulsory, they would replace the need for pasports and driving licences, etc.
Your ID card could be required for internal travel, like if they didn't want anybody saying EYYYUPPP in London, they could decline your request for travel. 😉
D
Originally posted by RagnorakWhat a disaster - they wouldn't let me into London, how would I cope? 😉
You only need a passport for travel between 2 different countries.
Your ID card could be required for internal travel, like if they didn't want anybody saying EYYYUPPP in London, they could decline your request for travel. 😉
D
isnt the passport id? i carry it when abroad. bus passes have photos on and the driving licence (new) a photo and adress so why do these not have to be carried, any one with some form of id with photo and adress could be used. i have no problem with the card system only why another when we have so many!!
Originally posted by stokerIf they were to integrate passport, ID, driving licence, NI card, bus pass and fishing club membership (maybe not the last two 😉) onto one handy card, then I might be convinced that it's worth while, and probably cheaper in the long run.
isnt the passport id? i carry it when abroad. bus passes have photos on and the driving licence (new) a photo and adress so why do these not have to be carried, any one with some form of id with photo and adress could be used. i have no problem with the card system only why another when we have so many!!
Originally posted by RagnorakYou say this as fact. Where is your evidence that this is certain, let alone likely, to occur?
Its not just so that cops can stop u on the street and find out for sure where u live. Once they have been integrated and everybody has one, then you will be required to present your ID card for a multitude of transactions. Like travel. This transaction request can then be permitted or denied.
.
Here's a possible example - football holigans not being allowed to travel to the match. The police already try to do this, I've seen them patroling the stations with photos and cameras. An ID card system could be used to make the system much more effective. WHere's the downside? You seem to fear big brother using the same power to stop anyone who disagrees with him