Ukrainian ex-official has publicly admitted that Ukraine has an assassination program, and it has been used abroad.
"Inside Ukraine’s assassination programme"
The Economist, 5 September 2023
https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/09/05/inside-ukraines-assassination-programme
My position is as follows:
1) Ukraine has the right to defend its territory.
2) Western countries have no obligation to defend Ukraine's territory.
3) Western countries should not send weapons and other military assistance to the extremists.
@eintaluj said4) Extremist nations like Russia should be fought back
Ukrainian ex-official has publicly admitted that Ukraine has an assassination program, and it has been used abroad.
"Inside Ukraine’s assassination programme"
The Economist, 5 September 2023
https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/09/05/inside-ukraines-assassination-programme
My position is as follows:
1) Ukraine has the right to defend its territory.
2) Western c ...[text shortened]... tory.
3) Western countries should not send weapons and other military assistance to the extremists.
You have a lot of gall posting this given Russia has the most infamous "assassination program" of any nation.
From your link:
"In modern Ukraine, assassinations date back to at least 2015, when its domestic security service (SBU) created a new body after Russia had seized Crimea and the eastern Donbas region."
@vivify saidThis answer contains so many serious mistakes that, perhaps, it should not be commented. However, to the other readers:
4) Extremist nations like Russia should be fought back
You have a lot of gall posting this given Russia has the most infamous "assassination program" of any nation.
From your link:
"In modern Ukraine, assassinations date back to at least 2015, when its domestic security service (SBU) created a new body after Russia had seized Crimea and the eastern Donbas region."
1) "Extremist nations like Russia"
- Not the nations but the political regimes are extremists. The view that some nation is extremist is a form of racism, besides, such a claim is pretty meaningless.
2) "You have a lot of gall posting this"
- This remark is neither about the text I shared nor about my views presented above. Instead, this remark addresses my personality.
3) "You have a lot of gall posting this given Russia has the most infamous 'assassination program' of any nation."
First, I am not so sure that this claim about Russia is true. Second, this remark was completely out of context. My position in my initial post was that Western countries should not send weapons to the extremists. The discussion was about Ukraine. Your remark about the Russian assassination program is completely irrelevant in that context - because Western countries do not send weapons to Russia.
4) "From your link:
'In modern Ukraine, assassinations date back to at least 2015, when its domestic security service (SBU) created a new body after Russia had seized Crimea and the eastern Donbas region.'"
- This answer is completely out of context concerning my initial post, and it is irrelevant even concerning your own remarks you have made before that.
I conclude that @vivify does not participate in the discussion of my initial post, as her remarks are a pure noise and do not address the issue at all.
@eintaluj saidIt's obvious to anyone else here that I'm referring to Putin's regime and not the people of Russia. Your comment is dumb.
1) "Extremist nations like Russia"
- Not the nations but the political regimes are extremists.
'In modern Ukraine, assassinations date back to at least 2015, when its domestic security service (SBU) created a new body after Russia had seized Crimea and the eastern Donbas region.'"
- This answer is completely out of context concerning my initial post, and it is irrelevant even concerning your own remarks you have made before that.
How is this out of context? Being invaded by Russia is the entire reason why their "assassination program" exists. This is a measure created to counter a nation actively invading it.
You're trying to isolate discussion of Ukraine from discussion about Russia which is idiotic given their actions are a direct response to being invaded.
05 Sep 23
@eintaluj saidI agree with your assessment and am very glad to see that someone else is critical of the hideous Zelenskyy regime, which has failed to meet democratic norms by declaring its political opponents as enemies of the state and banning them, and which went along with the hare-brained CIA schemes of starting a prolonged war with Russia.
Ukrainian ex-official has publicly admitted that Ukraine has an assassination program, and it has been used abroad.
"Inside Ukraine’s assassination programme"
The Economist, 5 September 2023
https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/09/05/inside-ukraines-assassination-programme
My position is as follows:
1) Ukraine has the right to defend its territory.
2) Western c ...[text shortened]... tory.
3) Western countries should not send weapons and other military assistance to the extremists.
It does not surprise me that Zelenskyy regime has an assassination programme abroad.
Over 18 months of war, dozens of people like Yunakov have been targeted in clinical operations across occupied Ukraine and inside Russia itself. They have been shot, blown up, hanged and even, on occasion, poisoned with doctored brandy. Ukraine is tight-lipped about its involvement in assassinations. But few doubt the increasingly competent signature of its security services. The agencies themselves drop heavy hints. “Any person who betrays Ukraine, shoots at Ukrainians or fires missiles on Ukrainians should understand that they are being watched and will be brought to justice,” says Andriy Cherniak, an officer of hur, Ukraine’s military-intelligence agency. In an interview in July his boss, General Kyrylo Budanov, went further: “If you are asking about [creating a version of] Mossad…We don’t need to. It already exists.”
Link to non-paywall version
https://archive.is/hIuHi
... I think it is perhaps the case that the Russians are willing to do this as well, but I have felt particularly upset since the botched assassination attempt on Aleksandr Dugin called Darya Drugina... His daughter.
It has been upsetting because he was an intellectual and not, in any capacity, a warrior... It was completley unnecessary and provided no military advantage to the Ukrainians, which makes it disgusting.
But I am not surprised that they engage in this and that the Western oligarch media is often quite silent about it.
06 Sep 23
@eintaluj said"Her"??
This answer contains so many serious mistakes that, perhaps, it should not be commented. However, to the other readers:
1) "Extremist nations like Russia"
- Not the nations but the political regimes are extremists. The view that some nation is extremist is a form of racism, besides, such a claim is pretty meaningless.
2) "You have a lot of gall posting this"
- ...[text shortened]... discussion of my initial post, as her remarks are a pure noise and do not address the issue at all.
What is with you people?
06 Sep 23
@philokalia saidWhy is today's Republican Party so heavily enamored with Russia? And against Ukraine? Who is the aggressor here?
I agree with your assessment and am very glad to see that someone else is critical of the hideous Zelenskyy regime, which has failed to meet democratic norms by declaring its political opponents as enemies of the state and banning them, and which went along with the hare-brained CIA schemes of starting a prolonged war with Russia.
It does not surprise me that Zelenskyy ...[text shortened]... rprised that they engage in this and that the Western oligarch media is often quite silent about it.
Oh, wait. The answer is two words: Donald Trump.
Russia helps your Orange Jesus out and Ukraine tells him to go pound sand when he wants dirt on Hillary.
Okay, now I get it.
I just wonder, when did lying to make your argument appear worthwhile become SO cool?
Oh, wait. Same answer: Donald Trump.
Pathetic.
06 Sep 23
@vivify said@vivify :
It's obvious to anyone else here that I'm referring to Putin's regime and not the people of Russia. Your comment is dumb.
[quote]'In modern Ukraine, assassinations date back to at least 2015, when its domestic security service (SBU) created a new body after Russia had seized Crimea and the eastern Donbas region.'"
- This answer is completely out of context concerning ...[text shortened]... discussion about Russia which is idiotic given their actions are a direct response to being invaded.
"How is this out of context? Being invaded by Russia is the entire reason why their 'assassination program' exists. This is a measure created to counter a nation actively invading it.
You're trying to isolate discussion of Ukraine from discussion about Russia which is idiotic given their actions are a direct response to being invaded."
I already explained above, how and why it is out of context. My question was whether Western countries are justified in sending weapons to Ukraine, not whether Ukraine is justified or thinks it is justified in doing something.
Besides, @vivify is unaware of common definitions of "terrorism" and "war crimes".
As a matter of fact, @vivify directly justifies terrorism and war crimes and I regard it as impossible to continue any discussion with such a person.
06 Sep 23
@suzianne said@Suzianne has provided an answer that has absolutely nothing to do with my initial post. For example, I claimed that Ukraine had a right to defend its territorial integrity. And @Suzianne infers that this position supports Russian invasion or I do not know what.
Why is today's Republican Party so heavily enamored with Russia? And against Ukraine? Who is the aggressor here?
Oh, wait. The answer is two words: Donald Trump.
Russia helps your Orange Jesus out and Ukraine tells him to go pound sand when he wants dirt on Hillary.
Okay, now I get it.
I just wonder, when did lying to make your argument appear worthwhile become SO cool?
Oh, wait. Same answer: Donald Trump.
Pathetic.
Why do people say that playing chess develops intellectual capacities, I do not understand, these answers above have been written by chess players...
@eintaluj saidYour thread title is about Ukraine's use of assassins. Your OP then links to a story about their assassination program, labeling Ukraine "extremist" because of it.
My question was whether Western countries are justified in sending weapons to Ukraine, not whether Ukraine is justified or thinks it is justified in doing something.
The fact that you insist on focusing exclusively on Ukraine and exclude any mention of Russia murdering scores of Ukrainian civilians---during an active invasion--- proves your post is designed to paint Ukraine as a villain rather than victim. It's pro-Russian propaganda.
06 Sep 23
@EintaluJ
It is obvious it looks like you approve of Russia attacking Crimea and then Ukraine and it also seems obvious you are oblivious to the FACT JACK that Putin has the goal of rebuilding the Soviet empire or did you forget he started out as a KGB agent? He can't get over the end of the Soviet Union and has fumed ever since then in his zeal to rebuild and now Belarus is also in Putin's pocket and is supplying Russia with troops and Iran is supplying drones and he is meeting with Kim Jon Un to beg for ammunitions and such, a sure sign of desperation and weakness because he cannot keep supplying his troops with the weapons they need to quickly take over Ukraine but none of that matters to you does it? I assume you are ok with the fact that Putin kidnapped hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children and now raising them as Russians.
You seem to feel the west should just fall over and play dead and just let the Russian drive to rebuild the Soviet empire back again, I guess you figure that would be a good thing since the Soviets treated their own people so well.
But ultrarightwingnuts like you never delve into anything that deeply so you can keep your mind free of doubt.
@eintaluj saidMy position is as follows
Ukrainian ex-official has publicly admitted that Ukraine has an assassination program, and it has been used abroad.
"Inside Ukraine’s assassination programme"
The Economist, 5 September 2023
https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/09/05/inside-ukraines-assassination-programme
My position is as follows:
1) Ukraine has the right to defend its territory.
2) Western c ...[text shortened]... tory.
3) Western countries should not send weapons and other military assistance to the extremists.
1) Russia does not have the right to invade Ukraine
2) Anybody who wants to help Ukraine defend its territory has every right to
3) Ukraine gets to kill hostile Russians wherever they are until Russia stops killing Ukrainian civilians
4) central and Western Europe have an existential need to support Ukraine and anyone who says they shouldn’t can GF themselves
5) Central and Western Europe need to massively remilitarise themselves by having larger numbers in uniform and a massive coordinated rearmament programme, the US cannot be relied upon from one election cycle to the next
06 Sep 23
@philokalia saidHaha thick as a turd and twice as nasty
I agree with your assessment and am very glad to see that someone else is critical of the hideous Zelenskyy regime, which has failed to meet democratic norms by declaring its political opponents as enemies of the state and banning them, and which went along with the hare-brained CIA schemes of starting a prolonged war with Russia.
It does not surprise me that Zelenskyy ...[text shortened]... rprised that they engage in this and that the Western oligarch media is often quite silent about it.
Sorry but your fascist Putin blowing post does not warrant any other response
06 Sep 23
@eintaluj saidShut up duchess you’ve proved that your an ignorant Russian whore in your opening thread regardless of your chess skills
@Suzianne has provided an answer that has absolutely nothing to do with my initial post. For example, I claimed that Ukraine had a right to defend its territorial integrity. And @Suzianne infers that this position supports Russian invasion or I do not know what.
Why do people say that playing chess develops intellectual capacities, I do not understand, these answers above have been written by chess players...
06 Sep 23
@eintaluj saidThat is surprisingly sharp.
This answer contains so many serious mistakes that, perhaps, it should not be commented. However, to the other readers:
1) "Extremist nations like Russia"
- Not the nations but the political regimes are extremists. The view that some nation is extremist is a form of racism, besides, such a claim is pretty meaningless.
2) "You have a lot of gall posting this"
- ...[text shortened]... discussion of my initial post, as her remarks are a pure noise and do not address the issue at all.