@wolfgang59 saidWho knows what it is about? At first "child abuse" and "child pornography" but since that has been shown to be absurd it's difficult to get any answers from the objectors. Philo wanted to talk about "morality" but despite repeated requests to do so he has not identified the moral error the filmmaker supposedly made.
I didn't think the discussion was about obscenity.
What's obscene?
So until someone addresses that, we're simply having their talking points rehashed without any possibility of reasoned discussion.
@no1marauder saidOh, I thought it was pretty obvious:
Your continued refusal to even say why the film commits any type of moral error makes further discussion pointless regarding "morality"; which you insisted on discussing. I'm not impressed by continued conclusionary statements regarding a subjective "sense of decency" that you think you possess and others do not.
The "guesswork" is your statements regarding the motive of the filmmaker to "create division". There is nothing to indicate that is so.
Filming scantily clad minors doing sexual dances with close ups and all is sexualizing minors and basically promoting obscenity and lust. In this particular case, very illicit lust.
@philokalia saidIs NETFLIX guilty of child abuse?
Oh, I thought it was pretty obvious:
Filming scantily clad minors doing sexual dances with close ups and all is sexualizing minors and basically promoting obscenity and lust. In this particular case, very illicit lust.
Everything else you have raised can be debated in separate threads.
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@philokalia saidSo you think people watching the movie will be filled with lust? 🙄
Oh, I thought it was pretty obvious:
Filming scantily clad minors doing sexual dances with close ups and all is sexualizing minors and basically promoting obscenity and lust. In this particular case, very illicit lust.
Pardon me if I find such an assertion ridiculously stupid.
@no1marauder saidChild abuse and consumption of smut involving minors is not that uncommon, and thus the production of scenes like what was linked to earlier potentially provide a legal supply of this kind of thing, and they push the overton window towards normalization of it.
So you think people watching the movie will be filled with lust? 🙄
Pardon me if I find such an assertion ridiculously stupid.
Which is sort of the big picture problem...
Why did you even think we were upset about this, if not for this reason?
@wolfgang59 saidAs this thread shows, it is very questionable as to whether or not the content is extreme enough to constitute literal child abuse or the production of inappropriate sexual content of minors.
Is NETFLIX guilty of child abuse?
Everything else you have raised can be debated in separate threads.
A very famous YouTuber, who no one would accuse of being a Conservative, "Penguinz0" has stated that this is nothing more than 'softcore child pornography.'
I have not seen enough to come to such a conclusion, but his video should illuminate you on this topic.
"I tried to give it the benefit of the doubt... but it's significantly worst than I thought it woul dbe... and accordign to every other YouTuber I watched, it is significantly worse than they thought it would be. And I can't even begin to describe how (expletive) baffled I am that anyone defends this movie."
@no1marauder saidReally, you really have to ask this like there might be someone (normal) out there filled with lust, really, except of course the pedophiles, they love this stuff, but you would have to know that, yes?, Have to know that, Love it. Normal people might have many, many varied responses but lust?
So you think people watching the movie will be filled with lust? 🙄
Pardon me if I find such an assertion ridiculously stupid.
As it happens it might awaken a dormant pedophile, yes possible, very sad.
Stop making excuses for porn, it looks bad.
@kevcvs57 saidKev, do you realize that if a ped org was broken up, and the story hit the NEWS big time,
It’s not about values, I think we all feel the same about child sexual abuse.
It’s simply that those claiming that this film in particular is a stand out example of it when it is clearly trying to highlight the issue by scenes and narratives that are already out there and have been for a long time. The proof of its success is here and in countless other forums, digital and ...[text shortened]... ad has got bogged down is that the films detractors have got lost in a swamp of their own hypocrisy.
if any news org showed the pictures of abused, naked kids to show the harm it has caused,
they'd be ARRESTED. No can do!!!
@earl-of-trumps saidBut there were no abused children in this film earl, that’s kind of the point it was a timely fictional drama centred on a very important theme.
Kev, do you realize that if a ped org was broken up, and the story hit the NEWS big time,
if any news org showed the pictures of abused, naked kids to show the harm it has caused,
they'd be ARRESTED. No can do!!!
@no1marauder saidWhat do you mean tat films often have things in them that are morally reprehensible?
Not a "he". Doubt she made a lot of money from this, her first film.
Films often have things in them that are considered morally reprehensible by most people. That does not imply support of those things.
Censoring the subject matter of this film won't make it go away.
Like, say, a depiction of murder, a depiction of war; a depiction of rape...?
These are all fake things that are staged. No one is actually harmed.
They were essentially making recordings that serve as sexually arousing imagery for pedophiles.
I do not see the comparison.
@philokalia saidSorry I must have missed something. Have any of the actors involved reported any harmful effects deriving from the effects of filming?
What do you mean tat films often have things in them that are morally reprehensible?
Like, say, a depiction of murder, a depiction of war; a depiction of rape...?
These are all fake things that are staged. No one is actually harmed.
They were essentially making recordings that serve as sexually arousing imagery for pedophiles.
I do not see the comparison.
@kevcvs57 saidThis is essentially the same argument that prostitutes use to argue that they are involved in a transaction by consent thus it is a victimless crime.
Sorry I must have missed something. Have any of the actors involved reported any harmful effects deriving from the effects of filming?
Nobody gets to decide that girls so young should be involved in what amounts to softcore smut.
This isn't my assessment -- this is the assessment of foul mouthed YouTubers like Penguinz0.
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@philokalia saidOh well if foul mouthed you tubers are saying it it must be right.
This is essentially the same argument that prostitutes use to argue that they are involved in a transaction by consent thus it is a victimless crime.
Nobody gets to decide that girls so young should be involved in what amounts to softcore smut.
This isn't my assessment -- this is the assessment of foul mouthed YouTubers like Penguinz0.
Look given that you have to rely on ridiculous statements like this
“ This is essentially the same argument that prostitutes use to argue that they are involved in a transaction by consent thus it is a victimless crime. ”
Maybe you should accept that you don’t actually have an argument and just let people make their own minds up. Anyone who wants to cancel Netflix because of this is welcome to do so but I won’t be doing any such thing.
Fundamentalist Religions are there to be ignored and cancelled on an intellectual level IMO but I would not want to ban them no matter how much Psychological and emotional harm I think they do to children.
@kevcvs57 said“ I would not want to ban them no matter how much Psychological and emotional harm I think they do to children.”
Oh well if foul mouthed you tubers are saying it it must be right.
Look given that you have to rely on ridiculous statements like this
“ This is essentially the same argument that prostitutes use to argue that they are involved in a transaction by consent thus it is a victimless crime. ”
Maybe you should accept that you don’t actually have an argument and just let people ...[text shortened]... to ban them no matter how much Psychological and emotional harm I think they do to children.
Takes a cruel person to say things like that.