Just following orders ...

As a member of the US Air Force I was sickend with the Nuremburg defence the Iraqui Prison guards gave, but as a History major and the spouse of a Psych grad i wonder, people know right and wrong, but increase the stress level and add peer pressure and whamo, the need for comformaty sets in and
ormal and abnormal behavior gets twisted, so who are we to judge? Where they wrong, yes, are they the only ones responsable? I dunno😕

Although I do agree that it has been proven that perfectly normal and nice people can be turned into torturers in a very short space of time just by an authority figure giving them orders, the rules of war are very clear on this. "I was just following orders" is not an excuse for illegal activity, just as "I didn't actually do it, I just signed the papers" doesn't hold. It is every soldiers duty to questionhis orders and if they are illegal he must refuse to carry them out or be found as guilty as the one who gave the order in the first place. I just hope that those who gave the illegal orders are also held accountable, and not just the grunt at the bottom.

sometimes easer said then done, if everyone is doing it then it must be ok, afterall the only harm that seems to have hapened is phsycological and not physical (as far as I Know), I do agree with the Higher ups ie first line officers and NCOs getting a tougher sentance, as an NCO myself this conduct clearly warented somebody with the moral fortitude to stop it on the spot, but again going back to my point if somebody who has control over you as a superior, and you the lowly private question their orders, your screwed anyway. In the Military and in a hostile environ, conforming to the "norm" builds unity, nobody wants an loner😉

I always like to use a rational of this....
The moral scale
If you work in an office have you ever taken a paper clip, pencil, paper?
If you have it is stealing plain and simple. But people can rationalize it.
But why stop there why not the safe?

What I am saying is that everyone thinks about it differently.

I agree that soldiers should only be obligated to follow legal orders, but that does not mean that the higher powers should not be held responsible for giving illegal orders, unless they explicitly maintain a policy of giving orders not designed to be followed 😛.

Let us not forget that during a soldiers training it is emphasized, repeatedly, that not following orders can (and usually does) result in the death of your fellow soldiers. One can understand if questioning orders is not the first thing that comes to mind when a soldier is given one...eh?

Also, I'm generally a fan of the military only if they happen to be protecting my lazy butt from something/someone bigger, stronger, meaner than I am. However, I know a thing or two about the chain of command in the military and the training (brainwashing?) young recruits go through. I'm willing to forgive soldiers for obeying bad orders 'most' of the time, it is simply not in their lexicon to say NO.

TheSkipper

Originally posted by pawnoflife
As a member of the US Air Force I was sickend with the Nuremburg defence the Iraqui Prison guards gave, but as a History major and the spouse of a Psych grad i wonder, people know right and wrong, but increase the stress level and add peer pressure and whamo, the need for comformaty sets in and
ormal and abnormal behavior gets twisted, so who are we to judge? Where they wrong, yes, are they the only ones responsable? I dunno😕

Originally posted by pawnoflife
As a member of the US Air Force I was sickend with the Nuremburg defence the Iraqui Prison guards gave, but as a History major and the spouse of a Psych grad i wonder, people know right and wrong, but increase the stress level and add peer pressure and whamo, the need for comformaty sets in and
ormal and abnormal behavior gets twisted, so who are we to judge? Where they wrong, yes, are they the only ones responsable? I dunno😕

Originally posted by steerpike
It looked very much like they enjoyed carrying out their orders. Not much sign of embarassment either at being photographed bullying bound men.

We can see what the military mentality can foster: tin soldiers who follow the orders of tin gods without regard to right or wrong. Once upon a time Germany was a highly militarized, regimented society full of soldiers, officers, and bureaucrats, and what resulted were two world wars and millions dead.

Something some of you pro-draft right-wingers might want to ponder before running every 18-year-old off to boot-camp for a year to "build character" and "instill a sense of discipline". Yes, I know Germany still has a draft of sorts, but it's a holdover from the Cold War days and there's always the "civvy" option.

The military's job is to forge killing machines. There's nothing in that direction that humanity as a whole should aspire to anymore in this atomic age.

Originally posted by Soothfast
We can see what the military mentality can foster: tin soldiers who follow the orders of tin gods without regard to right or wrong. Once upon a time Germany was a highly militarized, regimented society full of soldiers, officers, and bure ...[text shortened]... t humanity as a whole should aspire to anymore in this atomic age.

Yes, well, your moral bankruptcy is empirically evident, StarValley; and as for folks of your ilk, I'm perfectly content to let time and social evolution spirit them away from this Earth.

Nevertheless I thank you for regaling me with some of that old-time right-wing religion. It's almost as if you were channeling Adolf Hitler himself.

Originally posted by Soothfast
Yes, well, your moral bankruptcy is empirically evident, StarValley; and as for folks of your ilk, I'm perfectly content to let time and social evolution spirit them away from this Earth.

Nevertheless I thank you for regaling me with some of that old-time right-wing religion. It's almost as if you were channeling Adolf Hitler himself.

Hmm. I'm starting to get the feeling I'm trading words with someone who doesn't quite have both oars in the water. You're one of those cyber-Olympians of the Last Word Contest, all too eager to follow a shot with another shot until your momma forces you to take a bath.

Well, it's been nice chatting with you. Have fun with your inevitable reply. 😀

Originally posted by Soothfast
Hmm. I'm starting to get the feeling I'm trading words with someone who doesn't quite have both oars in the water. You're one of those cyber-Olympians of the Last Word Contest, all too eager to follow a shot with another shot until your momma forces you to take a bath.

Well, it's been nice chatting with you. Have fun with your inevitable reply. 😀