Health care in America is a national disgrace. Every other western nation has a better plan.
Michael Moore is still an opportunistic jerk. Everything he's done before this blows, so I'm torn between two worlds.
A: Michael Moore finally got it right this one time.
B: Michael Moore is a big fat ugly wart covered choad that should be put to sleep for his previous works.
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Originally posted by sonhouseCome to Canada. You'll get medical care at no charge. Wait times are negligble for most procedures and the drugs are way less than the US.
It was a brilliantly done documentary, driving home just what we have lost in America. We Americans have lost the America we thought we had 50 years ago. The death rate statistics put us just better then Guyana and we are supposed to have this advanced medical system here. I am wondering just what can we do as Americans to stop the evil insurance system who en if you have 'good' benefits. The system is indeed as the title of the movie says, SICKO.
Or, if you need some procedure that has a wait list, you can always pay for it at a private clinic and then get re-imbursed later.
Screw market economics and Freidman. Get healthy now.
Originally posted by uzlessNo charge huh? Wow. That's really somethin.
Come to Canada. You'll get medical care at no charge. Wait times are negligble for most procedures and the drugs are way less than the US.
Or, if you need some procedure that has a wait list, you can always pay for it at a private clinic and then get re-imbursed later.
Screw market economics and Freidman. Get healthy now.
Originally posted by uzlessHere's an idea: pay from an early age into your own sick fund -- as you should with your own pension fund. You manage the funds -- with lots of help and safeguards of course (those who can't or don't earn would get some sort of government contribution -- similar idea to the negative income tax).
Come to Canada. You'll get medical care at no charge. Wait times are negligble for most procedures and the drugs are way less than the US.
Or, if you need some procedure that has a wait list, you can always pay for it at a private clinic and then get re-imbursed later.
Screw market economics and Freidman. Get healthy now.
When you get sick, you pay from your own fund. That gives you an incentive to seek the best care for the lowest cost.
In fact -- better yet -- the sick and pension funds work together such that on retirement, you live on the dividends, and pay for health care as you need to. The more you save/better you spend, the better your retirement or the larger the inheritance you pass on to your kids -- whatever you would like to do.
So if insurance is a good deal, maybe you buy that with your fund. Otherwise, you elect to pay as you go.
Of course, some people are forced to "over-spend" on health care because they get badly sick or injured or whatever. These folks borrow the amount from the government at zero interest with the goal to re-pay over time when they get better. Some never would manage -- but still the incentive would be there to get out of "debt" and have a bit better than the basic, minimum retirement plan that would be the default if you were completely destitute.
Something like this would allow the market to operate more freely on health care and insurance issues.
Originally posted by spruce112358Excellent idea, Spruce. It would also open the door for tax incentives. As in, no taxes on the interest gained.
Here's an idea: pay from an early age into your own sick fund -- as you should with your own pension fund. You manage the funds -- with lots of help and safeguards of course (those who can't or don't earn would get some sort of government contribution -- similar idea to the negative income tax).
When you get sick, you pay from your own fund. That giv ...[text shortened]... e this would allow the market to operate more freely on health care and insurance issues.
Originally posted by spruce112358Excellent idea, Spruce. It would also open the door for tax incentives. As in, no taxes on the interest gained.
Here's an idea: pay from an early age into your own sick fund -- as you should with your own pension fund. You manage the funds -- with lots of help and safeguards of course (those who can't or don't earn would get some sort of government contribution -- similar idea to the negative income tax).
When you get sick, you pay from your own fund. That giv ...[text shortened]... e this would allow the market to operate more freely on health care and insurance issues.
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Originally posted by spruce112358Your plan places the onus to care for a society on the individual instead of society itself.
Here's an idea: pay from an early age into your own sick fund -- as you should with your own pension fund. You manage the funds -- with lots of help and safeguards of course (those who can't or don't earn would get some sort of government contribution -- similar idea to the negative income tax).
When you get sick, you pay from your own fund. That giv e this would allow the market to operate more freely on health care and insurance issues.
Canadian society rejects this and states that all of our citizens will be taken care of regardless of the ability to pay.
Just because the American system is screwed up, it doesn't mean you should jump right to individual pay systems. Hell, why not institute the idiotiotc flat tax while you're at it! 😞
Edit: besides, how will people pay back their debt if they get cancer, aids, heart disease etc, rack up a monster debt in medical costs and then die? Can't pay it back if you're dead!
And those in long term care facilities that don't have jobs? Who's going to re-pay their debt?? The government will be stuck with millions of bad "loans" that don't get repaid.
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In Canada, we don't bother with individual "funds" as you call it. We have a slightly higher income tax rate than the US that takes the money right off your paycheck but we then give individuals free health care. We use the income tax money to pay for everyone's health care. Much easier, and the government can use their huge buying power to get better deals on drugs.
Originally posted by uzlessAmericans dont liked to be lumped into one organism, the society, we are individuals... and are willing to handle the responsibility.
Your plan places the onus to care for a society on the individual instead of society itself.
Canadian society rejects this and states that all of our citizens will be taken care of regardless of the ability to pay.
Just because the American system is screwed up, it doesn't mean you should jump right to individual pay systems. Hell, why not institute the idiotiotc flat tax while you're at it! 😞
Originally posted by uzlessIf Canada is so perfect, then tell it to all those hosers that come to my country when the need critical surgery.
Your plan places the onus to care for a society on the individual instead of society itself.
Canadian society rejects this and states that all of our citizens will be taken care of regardless of the ability to pay.
Just because the American system is screwed up, it doesn't mean you should jump right to individual pay systems. Hell, why not institute ...[text shortened]... r, and the government can use their huge buying power to get better deals on drugs.
Originally posted by sonhouseThe whole system of biomedicine is sick, and whilst emergency medicine is amazing, the approach to chronic conditions is one of perpetual and steadily increasing medication and iatrogenic causes are the 3rd biggest killers in the western world.
It was a brilliantly done documentary, driving home just what we have lost in America. We Americans have lost the America we thought we had 50 years ago. The death rate statistics put us just better then Guyana and we are supposed to have this advanced medical system here. I am wondering just what can we do as Americans to stop the evil insurance system who ...[text shortened]... en if you have 'good' benefits. The system is indeed as the title of the movie says, SICKO.
That said, I think the NHS is a great achievement and although I don't use it, I am glad it's there and it's free.
For my livelihood as a Medical Herbalist, which is giving private healthcare, I would fare much better under a free market, but I would much rather people had some treatment rather than none.
However with some of the patients I see taking meds to counteract the side effect of other meds with little overall benefit I don't always think this!
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Originally posted by MerkWhile no system is perfect, nor quoted as perfect, there are not that many that go to the US and those that do are refunded by our government.
If Canada is so perfect, then tell it to all those hosers that come to my country when the need critical surgery.
Just like the US buys some of it's electricity and oil from Canada, Canada buys some of the US's doctors from time to time.
It's really not that big a deal to go to the US, especially when it's paid for by our government, but you're talking less than 0.01%
Originally posted by uzlessi read somewhere that it's illegal to offer private health care for most (or a lot of) operations in canada; some clinic tried it out west and got stomped on. (maybe i saw it on bbc dot com a while back.)
Come to Canada. You'll get medical care at no charge. Wait times are negligble for most procedures and the drugs are way less than the US.
Or, if you need some procedure that has a wait list, you can always pay for it at a private clinic and then get re-imbursed later.
Screw market economics and Freidman. Get healthy now.
Originally posted by Palynkasure 🙂
Didn't find it, can you post them?
1. from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_rate
=> CIA's world death rates:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html
=> US death rates by cause and age group:
http://www.data360.org/graph_group.aspx?Graph_Group_Id=347
2. on nationmaster, for some reason they put death rate under the "People" category, not "Health" :
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_dea_rat-people-death-rate
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Originally posted by zeeblebotJust saw the CIA one. That statistic seems pretty meaningless.
sure 🙂
1. from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_rate
=> CIA's world death rates:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html
=> US death rates by cause and age group:
http://www.data360.org/graph_group.aspx?Graph_Group_Id=347
2. on nationmaster, for some reason they put death rate under the "Peo category, not "Health" :
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_dea_rat-people-death-rate
The Gaza strip has a lower death rate than the US or any European country.