Originally posted by ivanhoeYou clearly are forgetting that Kennedy was a moving target. If pieces of his skull ended up on the back part of the car, I don't see why you think that is incompatible with his being shot from the rear. Once the pieces of brain and skull are initially projected forward, watch the video to see exactly the path they take, and you'll see what I mean.
The first Lady gets on the back of the car to grab pieces of the Presidents skull. She manages to grab one big piece while the secret agent wants to give her a second one. Then after collecting what she wanted to collect, she returns to her seat.
The pieces of skull came, obviously, from the back of Kennedy's head. The direction they took is roughly from ...[text shortened]... taking place here ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=gI6GAfAGYek
The fact is that the video does not in any way support your assertion that the shot came from the front of Kennedy.
Originally posted by ivanhoeNo. Watch the video carefully and see where the matter that is ejected from the front of his head ultimately ends up, due to the fact that the car is moving.
The pieces of skull came, obviously, from the back of Kennedy's head....This means that the exit wound was on the side indicated by the direction taken by the big pieces of skull coming from the president's head.
The House Select Committee on Assassinations
Main article: House Select Committee on Assassinations
Fifteen years after the Warren Commission issued its report, a congressional committee named the House Select Committee on Assassinations reviewed the Warren Commission report and the underlying FBI report on which the Commission heavily relied.
The Committee criticized the performance of both the Warren Commission and the FBI for failing to investigate whether other people conspired with Oswald to murder President Kennedy. [34] [35] The Committee Report concluded that:
"[T]he FBI's investigation of whether there had been a conspiracy in President Kennedy's assassination was seriously flawed. The conspiracy aspects of the investigation were characterized by a limited approach and an inadequate application and use of available resource."(footnote 12)
The Committee found the Warren Commission's investigation equally flawed: "[T]he subject that should have received the Commission's most probing analysis--whether Oswald acted in concert with or on behalf of unidentified co-conspirators the Commission's performance, in the view of the committee, was in fact flawed."( footnote 13)
The Committee believed another primary cause of the Warren Commission's failure to adequately probe and analyze whether or not Oswald acted alone arose out of the lack of cooperation by the CIA. Finally, the Committee found that the Warren Commission inadequately investigated for a conspiracy because of: "[T]ime pressures and the desire of national leaders to allay public fears of a conspiracy."
The transcripts of the Warren Commission's private sessions reveal the members of the commission were aware of the FBI's refusal to investigate the possibility that more than just Oswald were involved in the murder, but were at a loss at what to do about it, and seemed fearful that the FBI's premature conclusion of the lone gunman theory would leak out. [36]
The committee concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at President John F. Kennedy. The second and third shots he fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President. The HSCA agreed with the single bullet theory, but concluded that it occurred at a time point during the assassination that differed from what the Warren Commission had theorized. Their theory, based primarily on dictabelt evidence, was that President Kennedy was assassinated probably as a result of a conspiracy. They proposed that four shots had been fired during the assassination; Oswald fired the first, second, and fourth bullets, and that (based on the acoustic evidence) there was a high probability that an unnamed second assassin fired the third bullet, but missed, from President Kennedy's right front, from a location concealed behind the Grassy Knoll picket fence.
Many years after the House Select Committee on Assassinations issued its report, the attorney for the House Select Committee on Assassinations, G. Robert Blakey issued a statement to the news media calling into question the honesty of the CIA in its dealings with the Committee and the accuracy of the information given to it.
Response to the Dictabelt Evidence
The attorney for the House Select Committee on Assassinations, G. Robert Blakey, told ABC News that the conclusion that a conspiracy existed in the assassination was established by both witness testimony and acoustic evidence:
The shot from the grassy knoll is not only supported by the acoustics, which is a tape that we found of a police motorcycle broadcast back to the district station. It is corroborated by eyewitness testimony in the plaza. There were 20 people, at least, who heard a shot from the grassy knoll. [37]
The sole acoustic evidence relied on by the committee to support its conclusion of a fourth gunshot (and a gunman on the grassy knoll) in the JFK assassination, was a Dictabelt recording alleged to be from a stuck transmitter on a police motorcycle in Dealey Plaza during the assassination.[38]
After the committee finished its work, however, an amateur researcher listened to the recording and discovered faint crosstalk of transmissions from another police radio channel known to have been made a minute after the assassination. [39]Further, the Dallas motorcycle policeman thought to be the source of the sounds followed the motorcade to the hospital at high speed, his siren blaring, immediately after the shots were fired. Yet the recording is of a mostly idling motorcycle, eventually determined to have been at JFK's destination, the Trade Mart, miles from Dealey Plaza.
Several years later, in 1981, a special panel of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) disputed the evidence of a fourth shot, contained on the police dictabelt [40]. The panel concluded it was simply random noise, perhaps static, recorded about a minute after the shooting while Kennedy's motorcade was en route to Parkland Hospital.
The NAS experts, headed by physicist Norman F. Ramsey of Harvard, reached that conclusion after studying the sounds on the two radio channels Dallas police were using that day. Routine transmissions were made on Channel One and recorded on a dictabelt at police headquarters. An auxiliary frequency, Channel Two, was dedicated to the president's motorcade and used primarily by Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry; its transmissions were recorded on a separate Gray Audograph disc machine.
The conclusion by the NAS was then rebutted in 2001 in a Science and Justice article by D.B. Thomas, a government scientist and JFK assassination researcher. [41] Mr. Thomas concluded the HSCA finding of a second shooter was correct and that the NAS panel's study was flawed. Thomas surmises that the Dictaphone needle jumped and created an overdub on Channel One.[42]
In reponse to Thomas's findings, Michael O'Dell concluded in his report[43] that the prior reports relied on incorrect timelines and made unfounded assumptions that, when corrected, do not support the identification of gunshots on the recording.
However, Thomas claimed those findings to be false at a conference in DC in 2005, and provided what he said was further support for evidence of at least four shots. [44]
In 2003, ABCNEWS aired the results of their investigation on a program called "Peter Jennings Reporting: The Kennedy Assassination-Beyond Conspiracy." Based on computer diagrams and recreations done by Dale K. Myers, ABCNEWS concluded that the sound recordings on the dictabelt could not have come from Dealey Plaza and that the Police Officer H.B. McLain was correct in his assertions that he had not yet entered Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination.[45]
The Assassination Records Review Board
The Assassination Records Review Board was created under federal law to gather and preserve the documents relating to the assassination. [46] Doctors who conducted the autopsy on President John F. Kennedy may have performed two brain examinations of two different brains in the days following his assassination, a staff report for the Assassinations Records Review Board determined. The report, summarizing perplexing discrepancies in the medical evidence, was among more than 400,000 pages of internal government records reviewed. The Board's chief analyst for military records, Douglas Horne, believed that the substitution of the brain of another cadaver was probably part of a coverup to make it seem as if President Kennedy had not been the victim of a conspiracy. Horne contended that the damage to the second brain examined at Bethesda reflected a shot from behind, while Kennedy's brain reflected a shot from the front. However, the full Board did not take a position on Mr. Horne's theory, which was based on the testimony of a photographer who said he saw the brain, and a pathologist who said he saw sections of it, before it was formally examined by the autopsy doctors for their supplimentary report on December 6 [47] The Assassination Records Review Board looked over the autopsy records and took testimony of the participants and determined that the autopsy of the murdered president was handled in such an unprofessional manner that it termed it a "tragedy." [48]
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/jfk+assassination
Originally posted by LemonJelloDoes this mean you do not contend the events with the First Lady and the secret agent as I described them ?
No. Watch the video carefully and see where the matter that is ejected from the front of his head ultimately ends up, due to the fact that the car is moving.
You now assume that the brain masses which were driven out by the bullet from the left were somehow reversed in their path by the fact that the car was moving ? Correct ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeHaving watched the video several times, I agree that she was probably reaching for brain or skull or some such. And I also contend that the matter was initially ejected from the front of his head. You can see the path of the matter on the video.
Does this mean you do not contend the events with the First Lady and the secret agent as I subscribed them ?
You now assume that the brain masses which were driven out by the bullet from the left were somehow reversed in their path by the fact that the car was moving ? Correct ?
Originally posted by LemonJelloNo, I'm not forgetting that the President is a moving target.
You clearly are forgetting that Kennedy was a moving target. If pieces of his skull ended up on the back part of the car, I don't see why you think that is incompatible with his being shot from the rear. Once the pieces of brain and skull are initially projected forward, watch the video to see exactly the path they take, and you'll see wha ...[text shortened]... video does not in any way support your assertion that the shot came from the front of Kennedy.
Why are the pieces of skull moving from the right of the top of the back of the car (Kennedy's seat) to the left of the bottom of the back of the car (the position of the secret agent) ?
Originally posted by LemonJelloWell, I guess because spitting against the wind isn't the same as shooting somebody in the head. Besides there is a wind shield on the car, so the wind does not affect the passengers that much. I do not see any wild hair waving indicating heavy air turbulence. Do you ? Then why should suddenly the brain tissues be thrown backwards by the wind ?
ivanhoe, why don't people try to spit straight ahead when they are riding their Harley? Watch the video again.
Originally posted by ivanhoeFrom the video, I don't gather that they are. It looks the matter goes everywhere over the back side of the car. Of course, she is on the driver's side to begin with.
Why are the pieces of skull moving from the right of the top of the back of the car (Kennedy's seat) to the left of the bottom of the back of the car (the position of the secret agent) ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeThey are in a convertible, and I think there is definitely evidence on the clip that they are being influenced by the wind -- as seen by their hair and and the flowers in front.
Well, I guess because spitting against the wind isn't the same as shooting somebody in the head.
Have you taken a look at the matter that gets ejected? What sort of path do you think it follows?
Originally posted by LemonJelloLJ: "It looks the matter goes everywhere over the back side of the car."
From the video, I don't gather that they are. It looks the matter goes everywhere over the back side of the car. Of course, she is on the driver's side to begin with.
On which grounds or observations do you draw this conclusion ?
Originally posted by LemonJelloCompare the path of the brain tissue with the path the inside of the banana is moving. Also note the "impact wound" in case of the banana video. Do you see the "tissue" exploding in the direction the bullet came from ? The bulk of the tissue emerging from the banana is moving together with the bullet to the right. I do not think that a bit of air turbulence would have stopped it from going that way.
Having watched the video several times, I agree that she was probably reaching for brain or skull or some such. And I also contend that the matter was initially ejected from the front of his head. You can see the path of the matter on the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAwV1Tor9js
Originally posted by ivanhoeThat's just my take from the clip. And note that the First Lady doesn't really reach for the driver's side rear. If anything, she is reaching over toward the passenger side.
LJ: "It looks the matter goes everywhere over the back side of the car."
On which grounds or observations do you draw this conclusion ?