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@vivify saidI clicked on this link of so called 30,000 false claims. The first 3 I sampled are laughable.
BTW, here's the database with 30,000 false claims, if you were interested:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/
Almost every statement made by humans can be taken as misleading if nitpicked by the same standard I've seen in the first 3 "lies" I scanned.
I always knew Trump was less than truthful (as are nearly all politicians). But after looking at this database and seeing , my opinion of him went up a small amount.
Edit: Just read 2 or 3 more. My opinion of the Washington Post goes down with each one I read. And my opinion of Trump goes up.
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@techsouth saidLet's address one of those first three you claim are mere nitpicks:
I clicked on this link of so called 30,000 false claims. The first 3 I sampled are laughable.
Almost every statement made by humans can be taken as misleading if nitpicked by the same standard I've seen in the first 3 "lies" I scanned.
I always knew Trump was less than truthful (as are nearly all politicians). But after looking at this database and seeing , my opinion of him went up a small amount.
Trump claimed to have the single largest tax cut in history, when he had the eighth-largest. There's quite a big difference between first place and eight place, no? And what makes this especially egregious is that he repeated this lie a whopping 296 times; each of those 296 instances are marked and dated in the database.
But okay, so that's not enough of a lie for you; well if you didn't stop at three and scrolled down only five more, you would've run into where he took credit for bill that helps veterans...that was passed in 2014, three years before he started office.
Is taking credit for a bill created by a previous president not enough of a lie for you? What if Biden took credit for something Trump did...you'd be just peachy with that, huh?
All your hand-waving is cute, but there are thousands of serious falsehoods listed all right there in that link.
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@vivify saidI just bought a new car and it was the most I ever paid for a car.
Let's address one of those first three you claim are mere nitpicks:
Trump claimed to have the single largest tax cut in history, when he had the eighth-largest. There's quite a big difference between first place and eight place, no? And what makes this especially egregious is that he repeated this lie a whopping 296 times; each of those 296 instances are marked and dated i ...[text shortened]... d-waving is cute, but there are thousands of serious falsehoods listed all right there in that link.
Status: FALSE.
In actual fact, the used car I bought when I was 19 was a higher percentage of my total income at the time than was the car I just bought.
If this is what you're counting as a lie, I think we're done here.
Edit: Washington Post had a chance to change my mind. They'd have done a lot better if they focused on quality rather than quantity. I'm not reading through 30,000 "lies" when most of them are crap like this.
@techsouth saidExcept that 330 million people have NOT been tried for crimes. That's not the least bit logical to include people who never went to trial as a point about wrongful convictions.
But for the main point of contention, I'd point out that in a country of 330 million people if there are 3 exonerations per week, one might understandably still use the words "very rare"
If you'd have to compare the number of people convicted compared to the number of people exonerated. Obviously. So your whole approach to the topic is fundamentally flawed.
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@techsouth saidHe repeated that falsehood almost 300 times. Let that sink in.
I just bought a new car and it was the most I ever paid for a car.
Status: FALSE.
In actual fact, the used car I bought when I was 19 was a higher percentage of my total income at the time than was the car I just bought.
If this is what you're counting as a lie, I think we're done here.
Edit: Washington Post had a chance to change my mind. They'd have done a l ...[text shortened]... y rather than quantity. I'm not reading through 30,000 "lies" when most of them are crap like this.
You also conveniently pretend you didn't see where Trump took credit for a law passed by Obama. You clearly had no defense for that one, so you employ selective blindness.
Classy.
@vivify saidEighth largest was in percentage of GDP. Maybe Trump meant in raw dollars. I don't know whether counting by raw dollars makes it number 1, though from the fact that the WaPo piece doesn't discuss that, it probably is. I can see rating it partially true or "missing context" because GDP% might be more important than raw dollars, but that hardly makes it a false statement.
Let's address one of those first three you claim are mere nitpicks:
Trump claimed to have the single largest tax cut in history, when he had the eighth-largest. There's quite a big difference between first place and eight place, no? And what makes this especially egregious is that he repeated this lie a whopping 296 times; each of those 296 instances are marked and dated i ...[text shortened]... d-waving is cute, but there are thousands of serious falsehoods listed all right there in that link.
“We imposed historic and monumental tariffs on China….Billions and billions of dollars were pouring into the U.S.”
WaPo commentary:
"Trump regularly brags that the United States reaps billions of dollars from tariffs he has imposed on other countries, such as China But... blah blah blah... Through Jan. 13, 2021, the Trump tariffs have garnered about $75 billion on products from China, according to Customs and Border Protection."
So how exactly is that false?
The whole thing seems a bit contrived. Quantity over quality is a good way of putting it.
@vivify saidI have an estimate off the top of my head of the US population. This is an informal discussion. You are correct that the more germane baseline is how many are convicted, not the whole population. But for fast and quick calculations, I reason that all of us understand that in a country of 330 million in 2022 that the number of convictions each day are orders of magnitude higher than the 3 per day you say are being overturned.
Except that 330 million people have NOT been tried for crimes. That's not the least bit logical to include people who never went to trial as a point about wrongful convictions.
If you'd have to compare the number of people convicted compared to the number of people exonerated. Obviously. So your whole approach to the topic is fundamentally flawed.
@vivify saidHere is what is sinking in.
Except he repeated that falsehood almost 300 times. Let that sink in.
You also conveniently pretend you didn't see where Trump took credit for a law passed by Obama. You clearly had no defense for that one, so you employ selective blindness.
Classy.
The Washington Post repeated the same petty criticism almost 300 times.
If someone says that dollar amount X is the largest in history, I do not EVER hear that and think that it is certain the assertion is about percentages and not raw values. In fact, my default assumption would be they are talking about raw dollars.
So personally, I would never have been misled by this so called "misleading" statement because I am enough of an adult to understand that everyone uses human language in ways that have ambiguities.
If you ever find me using something like this as an example of a "lie" by a liberal, feel free to call me on it. Or better yet, assume someone has hacked my account. I personally aspire to never allow my intellect to stoop to a level of pettiness like the Washington Post has done.
As far as Trump taking credit for a law passed by Obama, I have clearly said I believe Trump lies at times, it's just that this list has bolstered Trumps credibility in my mind rather than diminished it. So far, I have not bothered to look that specific one up. As I said, Washington Post had their chance and have blown it. Since I already know Trump lies at times, I see no point in wading through this list. I will stipulate than in this list of 30,000, there are almost certainly some very valid points. Alternatively, for this specific claim you mention, I wouldn't be surprised if the Washington Post was kind of weaselly in how they interpret his words also. But I don't see anything that depends on us picking one of 30,000 "lies" to haggle about.
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@sh76 saidI'm with you sh76. I had long heard of this so called database and suspected I'd find some mix of valid points alongside some silly partisanship.
Eighth largest was in percentage of GDP. Maybe Trump meant in raw dollars. I don't know whether counting by raw dollars makes it number 1, though from the fact that the WaPo piece doesn't discuss that, it probably is. I can see rating it partially true or "missing context" because GDP% might be more important than raw dollars, but that hardly makes it a false statement.
“ ...[text shortened]... false?
The whole thing seems a bit contrived. Quantity over quality is a good way of putting it.
I must admit that I expected something with more credibility and attempts to overcome their own biases than what I've seen so far.
This is hilarious. But I'm sure some only focus on the number 30,000 and probably only consider the largeness of the number without considering the partisanship of the source.
I'm ending this day thinking just a little higher of Trump than I started it.
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@techsouth saidYour gripe (after only reading 3 of 30,000 false statements) is that the first three weren't big enough lies for you.
Here is what is sinking in.
The Washington Post repeated the same petty criticism almost 300 times.
If someone says that dollar amount X is the largest in history, I do not EVER hear that and think that it is certain the assertion is about percentages and not raw values. In fact, my default assumption would be they are talking about raw dollars.
So personally, I ...[text shortened]... rds also. But I don't see anything that depends on us picking one of 30,000 "lies" to haggle about.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/timeline-trump-claims-as-president/
This link will let you jump around the full timeline of false statements. Here's one from the list:
Aug. 22, 2018: After months of denials about payoffs to alleged former paramours to stay silent during the 2016 campaign, Trump admits he made the payments but insists they were not a “campaign violation.” The payments “didn’t come out of the campaign,” he said. “They came from me.”
So not only did he repeatedly lie about even making hush money payments to cover up cheating on his wife with a porn star, but when Trump finally admitted it, he lied about using campaign finances funds to do it, which he did, and which is a illegal.
But somehow, the more you know about Trump's lies the most it "bolsters his credibility" in your eyes. That may be the most accurate portrayal of a conservative ever made by a single post.
@vivify saidYou're right. Trump has made some misleading statements.
Your gripe (after only reading 3 of 30,000 false statements) is that the first three weren't big enough lies for you.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/timeline-trump-claims-as-president/
This link will let you jump around the full timeline of false statements. Here's one from the list:
[quote]Aug. 22, 2018: After months of denials about payo ...[text shortened]... in your eyes. That may be the most accurate portrayal of a conservative ever made by a single post.
Next election I'm voting for the candidate that doesn't make misleading statements. If I can't find one, I'll just vote for Trump as my second choice (if he's running).
3 of 30,000 is enough to convince me the producer of this list has no intentions that are of high integrity.
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@techsouth said"Misleading". Way to dress up dishonesty with more palatable words. No, Trump outright lies.
You're right. Trump has made some misleading statements.
When Trump *repeatedly* claims his loss was because of voter fraud, despite 60 courts dismissing his claims, despite his own Attorney General saying there was no widespread evidence of voter fraud, despite his own Department of Justice saying this was the "most secure voter election in history", despite an overwhelmingly conservative Supreme Court dismissing Trump's claims....that's not "misleading". That's lying.
Downplaying the severity of a pandemic (which he admitted in a recording was five times deadlier than the flu)....is not "misleading", That's outright lying.
This thread is a heartbreaking case study of conservatives minimizing the dishonesty of their own side.
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@techsouth saidSo you'd rather vote for someone who has committed actual fraud (repeatedly, many years before he even became president) and actively lied many, many times while he was president - than for someone who has made "some misleading statements".
You're right. Trump has made some misleading statements.
Next election I'm voting for the candidate that doesn't make misleading statements. If I can't find one, I'll just vote for Trump as my second choice (if he's running).
Noted. You're an imbecile.
@shallow-blue saidIs that what you think I said?
So you'd rather vote for someone who has committed actual fraud (repeatedly, many years before he even became president) and actively lied many, many times while he was president - than for someone who has made "some misleading statements".
Noted. You're an imbecile.
You believe you've made a faithful and accurate of what I said?
Can you think of any possible misinterpretations you may have made?
