@averagejoe1 saidNice post Joe. Let's unpack a bit.
Your first para is apples and oranges comparison. Do you know that Pelosi actually said we can get rid of inflation if we print and spend more money. No, she didn't actually say print, but that is where it will come from.
The Trump economics was something else. Totally. I guess the next President, and the next and next, will borrow money. Maybe to pay for colle ...[text shortened]... ....he prints money, Wildgrass. Would pay debt with printing-press money. Not much of a businessman.
How you can predict the future without looking at records of past progress? Can we do that for a hot minute?
The Trump years were extreme outliers in terms of massive spending increases (only Jimmy Carter even comes close) so let's not use him as the only example. Let's instead look at the twelve prior D and R presidents .. off we go. All real numbers.
Spending... oof.
- Federal budget deficits under Republican presidents collectively are 54% higher than under Democratic Presidents. (3.42% of GDP vs. 2.07😵
- Federal spending (the bottom line in terms of government size) has increased twice as fast under Republican presidents vs. Democrat. (Dems average $36.9 billion in increases, GOP average is $78.6 billion)
Ok you say. But the Republicans are paying it forward. They give all your hard earned tax dollars out to billionaires who spend it so it can trickle down? Lets look at that... oof again.
- GDP growth is 75% higher under Democrat presidents.
- Business investment growth is 126% higher under Democrat presidents.
- Unemployment is 15% higher under Republican presidents.
- 10 of the last 11 recessions occurred under Republican presidents.
There are more numbers we can look at but it's really hard to look at these and still say that Republicans are the party of limited government or that their policies help our economy. Democrat Presidents manage the economy and your tax dollars better than Republicans. You can keep saying that Republicans will turn it around and show us the real 'limited government' we've been promised but it hasn't happened yet.
I was in your shoes once. I drank the Kool aid, but now I've seen the real elephant. All the GOP rhetoric is a mirage. They grow government faster than Dems. They build deficits faster than Dems. Their policies are not helping our economy.
Sorry.
presidentialdata.org
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/07/trump-is-right-about-one-thing-the-economy-does-better-under-the-democrats/
@wildgrass saidwildgrass: "Banning masks..."
The party that used to be limited government, now intrudes everywhere. Banning masks, outlawing abortion, dictating the precise lesson plans for teachers, making it harder to vote. Denying freedoms. They're interfering constantly in the most intimate moments of life.
COVIDs overblown and Jan. 6th didn't happen, but transgender athletes are destroying society?
This isn ...[text shortened]... y from election officials and concentrate it among those in power.
Where's my limited government?
Oh really, are you sure about this, or does it typify your usual overwrought exaggerated fanaticism that makes normal conversation impossible.
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@jimm619 says -
"'A free society does not burn books, "
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Disagree. People in a free society do not burn *other* people's books but are free to burn their own.
"nor is it afraid of new ideas.'"
Oh....? I can think of several in my lifetime, starting out with nuclear bombs strapped to ICBM's.
Jimm said - ...This is an intellectual argument, probably
out of the league of you and your fellow, 'Q-Anon' followers.
-----------------------------
<smile> sure Jimm. Have a nice day
@wildgrass saidTell you what. With all the weeds, let’s loook ahead. I certainly acknowledge all the technicals and algorithms and who spent what. Donald rewarded his citizens with increased standard of living, Obama loaded up entitlements, all that, it all costs money. Your man Carter,,,the misery index, and so it goes. Clinton bombed an aspirin factory, reputedly to take the attention off Monica.
Nice post Joe. Let's unpack a bit.
How you can predict the future without looking at records of past progress? Can we do that for a hot minute?
The Trump years were extreme outliers in terms of massive spending increases (only Jimmy Carter even comes close) so let's not use him as the only example. Let's instead look at the twelve prior D and R presidents .. off we go ...[text shortened]... ites/realspin/2016/11/07/trump-is-right-about-one-thing-the-economy-does-better-under-the-democrats/
So, now we have Biden, and frankly, your life is at stake. You should research what HE is up to.
For me, and hopefully all of you (except Sonhouse, forever Trump-focused), I will chime in on current events, and $5T-Biden. Present day hell.
Truly, you libs spend a lot of time on the past, and on trying to prove who does the most research on Ollllldd History. This is quite a new era. I am headlong into it. Obama will surface, but not today.
@averagejoe1 saidWell put, AJ, and I can add many examples myself to that list. Here's a few that grind my beans:
@AverageJoe1
How can libs say they want limited govt when they tell me to pay for some person’s private abortion? Controlling, dictating to me? Or for someone’s school loan? Simple examples. They want to make me part of someone else’s business,
My taxpayer $$'s spent on:
- economic and military aid to Israel every year
- 750 US Military bases in 80 foreign countries!!
- free needles and staffed safe injection sites for junkies
- free abortions for some people
It's all about controlling *other* people's hard-earned money, that's all. Control.control.control
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@averagejoe1 saidYou people are STILL talking about Obama and Clinton?!
Tell you what. With all the weeds, let’s loook ahead. I certainly acknowledge all the technicals and algorithms and who spent what. Donald rewarded his citizens with increased standard of living, Obama loaded up entitlements, all that, it all costs money. Your man Carter,,,the misery index, and so it goes. Clinton bombed an aspirin factory, reputedly to take the attention ...[text shortened]... lllldd History. This is quite a new era. I am headlong into it. Obama will surface, but not today.
@wildgrass says -
"But I don't think conservatives care that Trump added to the deficit at twice the rate of Obama."
--------------
You can bet your ass *I* do. It didn't escape me.
@earl-of-trumps saidPut me down as well. The government should be run like a man runs his household. That is not happening, and yes I hate it too.
@wildgrass says -
"But I don't think conservatives care that Trump added to the deficit at twice the rate of Obama."
--------------
You can bet your ass *I* do. It didn't escape me.
Lets drag it up, what did the post above say, the last 10 presidents except Dem Carter? Marauder can chair it. A scintillating subject.
But not me. Got my staff looking at the impending nightmare. 3 more years? Naaa
@wajoma saidYeah I guess you got me on another semantic argument. Not exaggerated fanaticism, just the good ol' GOP telling private corps how to run their businesses. I don't have to wear my mask in the gas station, but I still need to wear pants. Sheesh.
wildgrass: "Banning masks..."
Oh really, are you sure about this, or does it typify your usual overwrought exaggerated fanaticism that makes normal conversation impossible.
@averagejoe1 saidI assume that your "with all the weeds" statement is an admission of the facts.
Tell you what. With all the weeds, let’s loook ahead. I certainly acknowledge all the technicals and algorithms and who spent what. Donald rewarded his citizens with increased standard of living, Obama loaded up entitlements, all that, it all costs money. Your man Carter,,,the misery index, and so it goes. Clinton bombed an aspirin factory, reputedly to take the attention ...[text shortened]... lllldd History. This is quite a new era. I am headlong into it. Obama will surface, but not today.
The facts are that federal spending, in other words the size of government, has increased twice as fast under Republican leadership compared to Democrats. I don't understand, how can you admit to these facts and also think Republicans are the limited government party?
Carter was not my man. I loathed his gov't expansion programs. But Trump was worse, by the numbers. If you exclude war-time periods, he grew the government faster than anyone in history.
@earl-of-trumps saidWhen will conservative voters hold Republicans accountable for exploding deficits and spending?
@wildgrass says -
"But I don't think conservatives care that Trump added to the deficit at twice the rate of Obama."
--------------
You can bet your ass *I* do. It didn't escape me.
Joe likes to say "the Democrats are worse" but he's wrong about that.
@wildgrass saidMaking America Great. There are diff viewpoints, granted. I think he should have spent a lot of money on military, and of course you do not. So from your point of view he overspent. From my point of view he did not. That is one example, but there you have it.
I assume that your "with all the weeds" statement is an admission of the facts.
The facts are that federal spending, in other words the size of government, has increased twice as fast under Republican leadership compared to Democrats. I don't understand, how can you admit to these facts and also think Republicans are the limited government party?
Carter was not my man ...[text shortened]... the numbers. If you exclude war-time periods, he grew the government faster than anyone in history.
I also like the way the average family had an increase in their income of about $6000. That could not have happened if you would have tried to hold Trump back from his plan.
Are you aware that President Biden wants to print $5.5 trillion in money , snd just spend the hell out of it? And are you aware that Pelosi says it will reduce inflation? So you see, I have my own gripes.
I, for one, no offense, don’t care to talk about comparing all of the money spent by all of the presidents. There’s enough going on to keep the Forum interesting. You are aware of Joe Biden being involved in the shenanigans of his son, for instance? We can discuss Truman’s atomic bomb or Hunter Biden.
Hey, I asked marauder if he would talk the way he writes if we were all sitting in a pub. No response. Do you think he wears a black robe?
@averagejoe1 said"I think he should have spent a lot of money on military, and of course you do not. So from your point of view he overspent"
Making America Great. There are diff viewpoints, granted. I think he should have spent a lot of money on military, and of course you do not. So from your point of view he overspent. From my point of view he did not. That is one example, but there you have it.
I also like the way the average family had an increase in their income of about $6000. That could not have h ...[text shortened]... the way he writes if we were all sitting in a pub. No response. Do you think he wears a black robe?
Yeah, the fact that the US spends more than the next like 20 countries combined on the military is just a matter of opinion. Of different points of reference.
"I also like the way the average family had an increase in their income of about $6000."
Too bad it's a mix of outright lying, overestimating the effect his tax cuts had and taking credit for a trend started during obama.
"Are you aware that President Biden wants to print $5.5 trillion in money"
Nope. I am not up to date with the latest lies and/or whatever you misunderstood because you're not very bright.
" I, for one, no offense, don’t care to talk about comparing all of the money spent by all of the presidents"
You just did.
"You are aware of Joe Biden being involved in the shenanigans of his son, for instance? "
Nope, but it will be very fun to see you hypocrites bend over backwards in the future to claim justice Thomas shouldn't be held accountable for his insurrectionist wife's actions.
"Hey, I asked marauder if he would talk the way he writes if we were all sitting in a pub"
Who the fuk would, if given a choice, stay in the same room with you?