Originally posted by no1marauderDoes a fetus have to have rights for abortion to be homocide? Murder is defined by what the law says it is, but by definition is it a homocide?
You're being inconsistent.
IF you believe that a fetus has human rights, then abortion is MURDER, not merely immoral unless you believe that some humans have less rights than others.
Are you for real with that last sentence?
Originally posted by no1marauderThat's not the same question as whether I think abortion should be outlawed.
So you think Roe v. Wade was correctly decided?
Intellectually, I'm not enthralled with the idea that the Roe Court read something into the Constitution that really isn't there. I think a perfectly legitimate argument can be made that the decision should be left to the states.
As a practical matter, I don't have a major problem with the idea that abortions cannot be placed under undue burden pre-viability (which is Casey, not Roe). (I do strongly disagree with the part of Casey that ruled that spousal notification is an undue burden, but I digress). I'd rather the legislatures, not the courts, do it.
If you're asking whether I think that it would be a good idea to henceforth outlaw all abortions; then, no, I don't think that would be a good idea.
Like I said, I think abortion is immoral. I abhor the thought of it. As a parent, the idea of a person intentionally killing her own fetus is enough to make me nauseous. The idea that a wife can do it without her husband's notification, let alone consent, is wrong, in my view. Still, I'm not going to impose my sense or morality on other people and if they want to abort their fetuses, I suppose that's none of my business.
Post-viability, it makes sense that the fetus is entitled to human rights that outweigh the mother's privacy interests.
So, other than the spousal notification rule, I have no major problem with the Casey framework from a practical perspective.
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Originally posted by sh76In essence, it's the same question as whether you support "abortion rights". Absent Roe, States could (and would) criminalize abortion, so it could hardly be a "right" (though technically, the right to choose an abortion is merely a subset of the right to personal autonomy).
That's not the same question as whether I think abortion should be outlawed.
Intellectually, I'm not enthralled with the idea that the Roe Court read something into the Constitution that really isn't there.
As a practical matter, I don't have a major problem with the idea that abortions cannot be placed under undue burden pre-viability (which is Casey, rule, I have no major problem with the Casey framework from a practical perspective.
You've used so many weasel words, I don't know what your position is. A right doesn't have to be explicitly set forth in the Constitution, so your lack of "enthrallment" doesn't mean anything.
You support Casey as a "practical matter" while saying you'd rather have legislatures control the matter. That's certainly sounds like you are denying "abortion rights" - which you claimed I owed you an apology for saying you opposed.
Your positions are contradictory and/or worded so vaguely and with so many reservations that it's difficult to know what you are saying. But your tone certainly seems hostile to "abortion rights", so I don't believe any apology is necessary. I suppose I could say that you owe me an apology for claiming that I owed you an apology (I'll accept it when you're "man" enough to give it, I guess).
EDIT: The idea that a women should be required by law to tell her husband anything is bizarre.
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Originally posted by no1marauderI claimed you owed me an apology for misstating my position and then ripping me for saying something that is inconsistent with a position that I never had and never stated.
That's certainly sounds like you are denying "abortion rights" - which you claimed I owed you an apology for saying you opposed.
Your positions are contradictory and/or worded so vaguely and with so many reservations that it's difficult to know what you are saying. But your tone certainly seems hostile to "abortion rights", so I don't believe any apol ...[text shortened]... I owed you an apology (I'll accept it when you're "man" enough to give it, I guess).
You plainly did that. Anyone reading this thread can see that.
You don't want to admit it? Fine; Don't. That's perfectly okay with me. The fact remains. The posts speak for themselves.
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Originally posted by generalissimoOk, don't answer the question, by all means.
easy-labeling again? King of hypocrisy.
You're new "King of hypocrisy" line of attack is killing me. Killing me, I tell you.
Was my use of the word "infanticide" to describe an abortion an example of "easy-labeling"? My use. Or your use. Whoever it was.
Originally posted by PBE6I repeat:
True. But what does that have to do with a legal abortion? 😕
IF you believe that a fetus has human rights, then abortion is MURDER, not merely immoral unless you believe that some humans have less rights than others.
What part of that is most difficult for you to grasp? That abortion is legal hardly matters if you have the beliefs outlined above.
Originally posted by no1marauderIs she required by law to tell her husband that she's taking the child out of the country for 6 months (for example, if they're separated with joint custody)?
EDIT: The idea that a women should be required [b] by law to tell her husband anything is bizarre.[/b]
Is that bizarre?
Originally posted by no1marauderMurder is a legal term, so you're wrong. Abortion is murder if the law defines it to be so.
I repeat:
IF you believe that a fetus has human rights, then abortion is MURDER, not merely immoral unless you believe that some humans have less rights than others.
What part of that is most difficult for you to grasp? That abortion is legal hardly matters if you have the beliefs outlined above.
Originally posted by no1marauderNot all fetuses have human rights.
I repeat:
IF you believe that a fetus has human rights, then abortion is MURDER, not merely immoral unless you believe that some humans have less rights than others.
What part of that is most difficult for you to grasp? That abortion is legal hardly matters if you have the beliefs outlined above.
That was easy. 🙂