31 May 09
I'm not anti-abortion. I'm pro-life.
I'm quite certain all pro-lifers unequivocally denounce this act of violence.
My question is this:
If the individual who shot Tiller is a genuine Christian (which I doubt), then why did he not remain on the scene and wait for the authorities? Why run away? It seems to me that if this act was being done by a Christian in the name of God, then that person would not run away, because he would have nothing to be ashamed of.
31 May 09
2 edits
Originally posted by josephwWell, there's other mass murdering doctors to get rid of, ya know.
I'm not anti-abortion. I'm pro-life.
I'm quite certain all pro-lifers unequivocally denounce this act of violence.
My question is this:
If the individual who shot Tiller is a genuine Christian (which I doubt), then why did he not remain on the scene and wait for the authorities? Why run away? It seems to me that if this act was being done by a Chr ...[text shortened]... of God, then that person would not run away, because he would have nothing to be ashamed of.
We both know that not ALL "pro-lifers will denounce this act of violence".
And why should they? The good Christian who shot Tiller undoubtedly saved hundreds, perhaps thousands of babies' lives. You should be praising him. After all, you are "pro-life" and what's more important: the life of one baby killer or the lives of thousands of innocent children?
31 May 09
Originally posted by telerionWell, if someone does something wrong then they must not be a "true" or "genuine" christian, right?
There are some terrible mistakes genuine Christians just don't make no matter how weak the flesh.
Once a "genuine" christian does something wrong then they cease to be a christian. That's why there are so few "genuine" christians.
31 May 09
Originally posted by telerionSuppose that Osama Bin Laden could be located and we knew he was hatching terrible plans that would lead to the mass murder of thousands of babies.
There are some terrible mistakes genuine Christians just don't make no matter how weak the flesh.
Would it be a "terrible mistake" for a genuine Christian to shoot him and prevent these murders?
31 May 09
Originally posted by PsychoPawnNaturally. What's more no "genuine" Christian can claim with certainty that he will not commit a heinous crime someday in the future. After all, despite being redeemed he is still a creature of the flesh. A "genuine" Christian is never too sure of his future righteousness, for he has hidden in his heart that "pride cometh before a fall." No, a "genuine" Christian would never make such a grave mistake. And as a consequence, no "genuine" Christian can ever be sure that he really is a "genuine" Christian.
Well, if someone does something wrong then they must not be a "true" or "genuine" christian, right?
Once a "genuine" christian does something wrong then they cease to be a christian. That's why there are so few "genuine" christians.
31 May 09
Originally posted by no1marauderDownunder, our national public broadcaster ran this story on radio this morning, heading the story with an Obama soundbyte that denounced the 'heinous' act of violence and urging both sides of this debates divide, to respect the other's choices.
We both know that not ALL "pro-lifers will denounce this act of violence".
The news bulletin continued to report a pro life group as saying that this event will send a chill into the hearts of those who support the rights of abortion.
My unadjusted 2 cents for what its worth, is that the US should be stripped of its right to be called a civilized country, and that the international community should band together to collectively turn their backs on her and shun all of her recalcitrant retrograde behaviour. The moralistic tone that she would lecture those who would practice Sharia law, whilst her own nation lies awash with lawless vigilantism is proof of the hypocrisy that the world should no longer bear.
31 May 09
Originally posted by kmax87Absolutely; nothing like this could ever happen in Australia! http://feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=6468
Downunder, our national public broadcaster ran this story on radio this morning, heading the story with an Obama soundbyte that denounced the 'heinous' act of violence and urging both sides of this debates divide, to respect the other's choices.
The news bulletin continued to report a pro life group as saying that this event will send a chill into the hear ...[text shortened]... wash with lawless vigilantism is proof of the hypocrisy that the world should no longer bear.
01 Jun 09
The one and only thing that makes a Christian "genuine" is his/her heart condition before God. If that person believes that God has become the propitiation (wherein God is willing to accept His Son's death as payment for his/her sins), then that person is a genuine Christian. No action or inaction can reduce God's opinion or judgment of the person, there is no longer an unpardonable sin that they can commit.
So the bottom line is this: a good Christian has only to answer to God. They are lead by their conscience and commanded to obey God's law above man's law. If there is no contradiction between the laws of our country and God's law, then a good Christian has to obey their country's law. The man who killed Tiller has only to answer to God. Our life is only a blink of an eye, there is nothing that the government can do to him that will make any difference in the end.
To look at the other side of this, a good Christian also has to realize that every man and woman will be accountable to God as well, and that "vengeance is mine, I will repay". Those babies all are in God's hands, there is no better place for them, nothing but a second worth of life was stolen from them, which is nothing compared to eternity! Leaving someone's punishment in God's hands is sufficient, what can we do to truly give the murderer what he deserves anyway?
01 Jun 09
Originally posted by no1marauderYou can believe abortion is wrong and also believe that it's wrong to kill people outside the law. No sane person would condone gunning down a doctor who provides abortions. Even a murderer cannot be killed except in self-defense. To my knowledge (admittedly not very much), no Christian doctrine condones extra-judicial revenge murders.
I'm sure all you anti-abortion folks can get behind this one:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377
01 Jun 09
Originally posted by no1marauderpoint taken, but you would probably find the guy flew a stars and bars in his back yard, and was hooked on American Country music. For us it was a total shock that happened how many times? And we never had pro life support groups jumping up and down supporting the deranged killer's actions. I'm sure a sample of your talk-back radio in the past 24hrs would not be very complimentary of the doctor killed, and I'm sure in some quarters the killer will be hailed as a revolutionary hero.
Absolutely; nothing like this could ever happen in Australia! http://feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=6468
01 Jun 09
1 edit
Originally posted by sh76So if Osama Bin Laden was right in front of you and you had a gun, you'd let him walk?
You can believe abortion is wrong and also believe that it's wrong to kill people outside the law. No sane person would condone gunning down a doctor who provides abortions. Even a murderer cannot be killed except in self-defense. To my knowledge (admittedly not very much), no Christian doctrine condones extra-judicial revenge murders.
Let's not get bogged down into legality; I'm talking to people who believe that abortion is MURDER by God's law, not merely "wrong".
Besides, you are being (as usual) disingenuous; the killer here will say he wasn't doing a "revenge" killing but a killing to prevent Dr. Tiller from murdering in the future - something he was certain to do (again assuming abortion is murder). How does this not equate to a morally justified killing?
01 Jun 09
Originally posted by SharpeMotherSo you'd let somebody kill you parent/spouse/child in front of you and not do anything but trust in God's ultimate judgment?
The one and only thing that makes a Christian "genuine" is his/her heart condition before God. If that person believes that God has become the propitiation (wherein God is willing to accept His Son's death as payment for his/her sins), then that person is a genuine Christian. No action or inaction can reduce God's opinion or judgment of the person, ther ...[text shortened]... s is sufficient, what can we do to truly give the murderer what he deserves anyway?
01 Jun 09
Originally posted by no1marauderNo; I would not. Osama Bin Laden is a confessed mass murderer and will take lives in the future if allowed. No reasonable person can defend the morality of his conduct, nor of his avowed future conduct.
So if Osama Bin Laden was right in front of you and you had a gun, you'd let him walk?
Even if you believe that abortion is morally wrong, it's still a moral issue. That is, I can believe something is immoral, but respect someone else's right to have their own principles of morality. Furthermore, what he is doing is allowed under the legal framework of our society. If I don't like it, my remedy is to lobby to change the law on this issue.
Bin Laden's conduct is not condoned or permitted by the framework of our society (even if it's condoned by his own society, we have to work within the framework of our own society). There is no legal remedy against avowed terrorists. I can lobby to pass a law against the partial birth abortion doctor; passing a law against Bin Laden would be irrelevant.