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Originally posted by newdad27Yes, and we elect our representatives through democratic means.
the u.s. is a republic......moron.
Remember the reputation the Soviet Union had for these types of secret prisons? How about Saddam? Both of those reps were deserved. Do we really want to see our country using those same types of tactics and justifying them in the name of national security or some sense of nationalism? I don't.
The US has to raise the bar newdad. We cannot become what we're fighting against.
Originally posted by sasquatch672you know sas it is really pointless to debate here. hardly anyone here can have a logical, intellengent debate on facts. Please point out to me where i said i am in favor of torture. The military, under any circumstances, should NEVER use torture. Period. Where you got that I have no clue.
Americans must abide by the Constitution. That's something totally different than saying "Al Qaida get constitutional privileges". Americfans must act in a lawful manner. Right now, the law of the land prohibits torture. And it should - must - stay that way.
A short list of the people who disagree with you: Condoleeza Rice (Secretary of State ...[text shortened]... that think torture is a good idea. You're so smart that you know better than all these people?
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Originally posted by newdad27No one is saying you agree with torture newdad, I certainly don't think you do, but if "secret" prisons are needed to house prisoners the question that must be asked is WHY?
you know sas it is really pointless to debate here. hardly anyone here can have a logical, intellengent debate on facts. Please point out to me where i said i am in favor of torture. The military, under any circumstances, should NEVER use torture. Period. Where you got that I have no clue.
Why can't prisoners simply be held in the US? They were captured by our military. We are at war. Are the prisoners POW's or not? If they are then why are they kept in undisclosed locations?
You see how the list of questions just keeps growing and growing. None of this passes the sniff test newdad. None of it. It makes our country look like a monarchy, imposing it's rule arbitrarily on others simply because we can.
Originally posted by wibNO, we cannot fight terrorism in your theoretical world.
Yes, and we elect our representatives through democratic means.
Remember the reputation the Soviet Union had for these types of secret prisons? How about Saddam? Both of those reps were deserved. Do we really want to see our country using those same types of tactics and justifying them in the name of national security or some sense of nationalism? I don't.
The US has to raise the bar newdad. We cannot become what we're fighting against.
p.s. dont compare us to saddam's secret prisons that DID torture innocent men, women, and children.
Originally posted by wibwhy would we bring terrorist bent on killing as many americans as possible into the country they are bent on destroying. PLease answer that for me.
No one is saying you agree with torture newdad, I certainly don't think you do, but if "secret" prisons are needed to house prisoners the question that must be asked is WHY?
Why can't prisoners simply be held in the US? They were captured by our military. We are at war. Are the prisoners POW's or not? If they are then why are they kept in undisclose ...[text shortened]... r country look like a monarchy, imposing it's rule arbitrarily on others simply because we can.
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Originally posted by newdad27Because they are our prisoners. They are our responsibility. When we imprison someone we take everything from them. We are responsible for providing food, clothing, medical care, etc. Everything. We are also charged with having a reason for detaining them and bringing that reason into the public square.
why would we bring terrorist bent on killing as many americans as possible into the country they are bent on destroying. PLease answer that for me.
We simply cannot imprison people around the world based on alledged crimes and then keep them in prison for years on end with no charges ever being brougt nor sentences handed down. Do you see the implications of that? Take a long look down that road and see what that leads too. We become exactly the thing we despise.
Originally posted by wibagain you float into the world of the "theoretical". Let's focus on the specific facts. Fact: these are prisoners of a war, we are not taking people "around the world" prisoner. Not even Ted Kennedy would be for bring those prisoners here. we do give them food, medical, etc. And we have a reason for obtaining them, WE CAPTURED THEM FIGHTING US!!!
Because they are our prisoners. They are our responsibility. When we imprison someone we take everything from them. We are responsible for providing food, clothing, medical care, etc. Everything. We are also charged with having a reason for detaining them and bringing that reason into the public square.
We simply cannot imprison people around the world ...[text shortened]... long look down that road and see what that leads too. We become exactly the thing we despise.
Originally posted by newdad27Newdad,
again you float into the world of the "theoretical". Let's focus on the specific facts. Fact: these are prisoners of a war, we are not taking people "around the world" prisoner. Not even Ted Kennedy would be for bring those prisoners here. we do give them food, medical, etc. And we have a reason for obtaining them, WE CAPTURED THEM FIGHTING US!!!
Do you think it is wrong for a people to fight against an outside power occupying their country?
Was the US wrong to fight what was essentially a terrorist war against the british?
Were the French Resistance wrong to fight the Nazi occupiers?
Originally posted by newdad27So why would we keep POW's in secret prisons? If they're POW's they should be treated as such. Does the red cross have access to these secret prisons? No. How about the American media or the media from any other country? No. Who's in charge of these prisons? What are the conditions there?
again you float into the world of the "theoretical". Let's focus on the specific facts. Fact: these are prisoners of a war, we are not taking people "around the world" prisoner. Not even Ted Kennedy would be for bring those prisoners here. we do give them food, medical, etc. And we have a reason for obtaining them, WE CAPTURED THEM FIGHTING US!!!
No one knows.... And the CIA and the Bush administration wants to keep it that way. Why?
Plus your definition of "war" doesn't jive with what the Bush admin says. They don't want this war defined as a war when it comes to detainees. They've been ducking that issue since 2002. Again, why?
See how all of this makes the US look like a bunch of thugs?