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@no1marauder saidYeah supposedly pro-Russian. that’s right that supposedly pro Russian president who was supposed to sign an agreement leading to EU membership but backed out at the last minute after receiving orders from Putin and then had to flee to the Kremlin when the Ukrainian parlement had seen enough protestors shot dead by the security forces and ‘irregular units’
I never said Crimea's annexation was justified though its occurrence must be placed in the context of the 2014 coup that overthrew the Ukraine's supposedly pro-Russian elected President.
Crimea's annexation was no more justified then say Kosovo's detachment from Serbia by military force.
Yeah just keep saying stupid stuff in defence of your man Putin while he massacres children.
Putin invaded Crimea and Dombas region because he lost political control of Ukraine in 2014. End of story.
@no1marauder saidOh yeah imagine defending yourself against a known aggressor. How dare they the fools, do you want some lube with that attitude of yours?
These idiots are going to get us into a nuclear war with such actions.
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@shavixmir saidWhy are you pretending that it’s either let Putin stomp his way across Europe or have a nuclear war, do you think that Russia is any more suicidal than the Soviets?
What do you propose? A nuclear war?
Are you off your bloody rocker?
Why do you think people pussy-foot around the US when they have mad-hatter leaders saying and doing unspeakable things? Or China?
Because when nutters are in charge, it’s difficult to estimate rationality. One nuclear war and climate change is gonna look like a fresh walk in the bloody park.
The t ...[text shortened]... is.
That is, however, the reality when dealing with the US, China or Russia for the last 60 years.
This is effing surreal, suddenly the west has to capitulate to the ass wipe Putin or we’re all gonna die. We need to get a grip of ourselves. Putin has to be faced down with conventional forces or there most certainly will be a nuclear war when he crosses into NATO territory.
As one analyst aptly put it “Putin is a poker player not a chess player”.
Ukraine continues to kick his ass in combat and all he can do is bomb and shell civilians from a distance.
Lovely shot of a burning Russian supply vessel with two other warships trying to limp away from it on newsfeeds just now. ‘Give the Ukrainians the tools and they’ll do the job’
@kevcvs57 said"Why are you pretending that it’s either let Putin stomp his way across Europe or have a nuclear war"
Why are you pretending that it’s either let Putin stomp his way across Europe or have a nuclear war, do you think that Russia is any more suicidal than the Soviets?
This is effing surreal, suddenly the west has to capitulate to the ass wipe Putin or we’re all gonna die. We need to get a grip of ourselves. Putin has to be faced down with conventional forces or there most cer ...[text shortened]... g to limp away from it on newsfeeds just now. ‘Give the Ukrainians the tools and they’ll do the job’
Russia has their hands full in Ukraine. Putin in no position to stomp his way across Europe, nor is there any evidence he wants to.
Russia just wants their colony back, the same way the USA wanted Cuba back and tried to invade. Everybody wants to take back their colonies and try to do it by force if they cannot by coup. You act as though this is an uncommon thing.
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@metal-brain said“ Russia just wants their colony back, the same way the USA wanted Cuba back and tried to invade. Everybody wants to take back their colonies and try to do it by force if they cannot by coup. You act as though this is an uncommon thing.”
"Why are you pretending that it’s either let Putin stomp his way across Europe or have a nuclear war"
Russia has their hands full in Ukraine. Putin in no position to stomp his way across Europe, nor is there any evidence he wants to.
Russia just wants their colony back, the same way the USA wanted Cuba back and tried to invade. Everybody wants to take back their co ...[text shortened]... onies and try to do it by force if they cannot by coup. You act as though this is an uncommon thing.
Well I’m glad to say that Cuba fought of the USA and has remained a sovereign state but for some reason you and few other people here would deny that to Ukraine, just as Russia supported Cuba we need to support Ukraine.
BTW I do hope your not trying to draw a parallel between the USA’s at arms length activities in Cuba and what Putin is doing in Ukraine.
@kevcvs57 saidAt least you are not condoning the Bay of Pigs Invasion, but the USA invaded a lot more countries than that and the UK helped in most cases. The USA and UK are obviously both part of an imperialist empire. Stop projecting that on Russia unless you acknowledge both sides are imperialistic.
“ Russia just wants their colony back, the same way the USA wanted Cuba back and tried to invade. Everybody wants to take back their colonies and try to do it by force if they cannot by coup. You act as though this is an uncommon thing.”
Well I’m glad to say that Cuba fought of the USA and has remained a sovereign state but for some reason you and few other people here woul ...[text shortened]... w a parallel between the USA’s at arms length activities in Cuba and what Putin is doing in Ukraine.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-has-killed-more-than-20-million-people-in-37-victim-nations-since-world-war-ii/5492051
@kevcvs57 saidNot signing a proposed agreement is within the legal prerogative of a duly elected Ukranian President. If that displeases the Ukranian People they have the option to vote in a different President.
Yeah supposedly pro-Russian. that’s right that supposedly pro Russian president who was supposed to sign an agreement leading to EU membership but backed out at the last minute after receiving orders from Putin and then had to flee to the Kremlin when the Ukrainian parlement had seen enough protestors shot dead by the security forces and ‘irregular units’
Yeah just keep sa ...[text shortened]... invaded Crimea and Dombas region because he lost political control of Ukraine in 2014. End of story.
It is not a legal option under the Ukranian Constitution for armed men to take over government buildings and threaten violence if the President is not deposed. Your rather constant lying about the circumstances of the 2014 coup shows how detached you are from reality.
After the illegal ouster, done in spite of an agreement between the President and the three largest opposition parties brokered and signed by 3 EU foreign ministers but overridden by armed nationalists, Russia retaliated. The People of the Crimea were glad for that retaliation but it did violate the principle of recognized borders. So did NATO"s detachment of Kosovo from Serbia by force which you have not seen fit to place in a scheme for domination. Neither is likely to be corrected, so the world should move on rather than using one as part of an excuse for general war.
@metal-brain saidWhy would I condone the ‘Bay of Pigs’ anymore than I would condone Vietnam, the Iraq invasion or indeed the current invasion of Ukraine by Russia.
At least you are not condoning the Bay of Pigs Invasion, but the USA invaded a lot more countries than that and the UK helped in most cases. The USA and UK are obviously both part of an imperialist empire. Stop projecting that on Russia unless you acknowledge both sides are imperialistic.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-has-killed-more-than-20-million-people-in-37-victim-nations-since-world-war-ii/5492051
I’m not the hypocrite here.
@no1marauder saidThe reality please read.
Not signing a proposed agreement is within the legal prerogative of a duly elected Ukranian President. If that displeases the Ukranian People they have the option to vote in a different President.
It is not a legal option under the Ukranian Constitution for armed men to take over government buildings and threaten violence if the President is not deposed. Your rather co ...[text shortened]... e corrected, so the world should move on rather than using one as part of an excuse for general war.
“ In November 2013, a wave of large-scale protests (known as Euromaidan) erupted in response to President Yanukovych's sudden decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU), instead choosing closer ties to Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union. In February of that year, the Verkhovna Rada (Ukrainian parliament) had overwhelmingly approved of finalizing the agreement with the EU.[25] Russia had put pressure on Ukraine to reject it.[26] These protests continued for months and their scope widened, with calls for the resignation of Yanukovych and the Azarov Government.[27] Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption and abuse of power, the influence of oligarchs, police brutality, and violation of human rights in Ukraine.[28][29] Repressive anti-protest laws fuelled further anger.[28] A large, barricaded protest camp occupied Independence Square in central Kyiv throughout the 'Maidan Uprising'.
In January and February 2014, clashes in Kyiv between protesters and Berkut special riot police resulted in the deaths of 108 protesters and 13 police officers,[19] and the wounding of many others. The first protesters were killed in fierce clashes with police on Hrushevsky Street on 19–22 January. Following this, protesters occupied government buildings throughout the country. The deadliest clashes were on 18–20 February, which saw the most severe violence in Ukraine since it regained independence.[30] Thousands of protesters advanced towards parliament, led by activists with shields and helmets, and were fired on by police snipers.[19] On 21 February, an agreement between President Yanukovych and the leaders of the parliamentary opposition was signed that called for the formation of an interim unity government, constitutional reforms and early elections.[31] The following day, police withdrew from central Kyiv, which came under effective control of the protesters. Yanukovych fled the city and then the country.[32] That day, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office by 328 to 0 (out of the parliament's 450 members).[33][34][35][31]
Yanukovych said that this vote was illegal and possibly coerced, and asked Russia for help.[36] Russia considered the overthrow of Yanukovych to be an illegal coup, and did not recognize the interim government. Widespread protests, both for and against the revolution, occurred in eastern and southern Ukraine, where Yanukovych previously received strong support in the 2010 presidential election. These protests escalated, resulting in a Russian military intervention,[37][38] the annexation of Crimea by Russia, and the creation of the self-proclaimed breakaway states of Donetsk and Luhansk. This sparked the Donbas War.
@earl-of-trumps saidReminds me of this witty and sharp analysis of the Cold War situation from our classic 1980s television comedy series, Yes Prime Minister:
Putin can cross into London and neither NATO nor anyone else will use nukes.
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@no1marauder saidThis is where I totally disagree it’s the large number of troops on NATO’s eastern flank that will prevent Putin from attempting an inclusion and if he did he would be pushed back from any nato border in short order.
I strongly disagree. In the case of a general war between NATO and Russia, neither side would accept the defeat of their conventional forces. Should a situation arise where that seemed inevitable, the temptation to use tactical nuclear weapons would be overwhelming. And then what? The other side would surely retaliate in kind leading to the type of scenario of escalation ...[text shortened]... the delivery of lethal weaponry to the Ukraine, the chance of conflict will increase exponentially.
You seem to be implying that if we did that then Putin would resort to nuclear weapons but the logic of that is that Putin can go anywhere he damn well wants to go in Europe and we should step back.
You cannot be suggesting that Putin fears an unprovoked nato attack when we will not even create a no fly zone outside nato territory to save the lives of Ukrainian civilians. There is no internal logic to this argument.
@kevcvs57 saidDo you support GW Bush and Obama being charged with war crimes for their unprovoked invasions of choice?
Why would I condone the ‘Bay of Pigs’ anymore than I would condone Vietnam, the Iraq invasion or indeed the current invasion of Ukraine by Russia.
I’m not the hypocrite here.
@metal-brain saidCertainly GW along with Tony Blair, remind me again who did you invade under Obama?
Do you support GW Bush and Obama being charged with war crimes for their unprovoked invasions of choice?
@teinosuke saidWhat’s a Russian salami?
Reminds me of this witty and sharp analysis of the Cold War situation from our classic 1980s television comedy series, Yes Prime Minister:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y-yyaWCgiQ