Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriberno1marauder
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    14 Jul '15 18:06
    It is sometimes easy to get depressed about our species; looking around on this mud ball there is plenty of killing, oppression and other ills.

    But then there is something like this: http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/14/us/nasa-new-horizons-pluto-flyby/index.html

    It is astonishing to consider that a man made device is flying to the further reaches of the solar system and sending back pictures of the ex-planet Pluto. With all our faults and limitations, the human race can still do amazing things.

    Now if National Gird could be made to understand that there really is an Old South Pearl Street besides Pearl Street so they could turn the power on in my new house .........................................
  2. Standard membervivify
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    14 Jul '15 18:58
    That's amazing.

    How was this photo taken? Isn't it too dark where Pluto is in order to get a good shot?
  3. Zugzwang
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    14 Jul '15 19:59
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    It is sometimes easy to get depressed about our species; looking around on this mud ball there is plenty of killing, oppression and other ills.

    But then there is something like this: http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/14/us/nasa-new-horizons-pluto-flyby/index.html

    It is astonishing to consider that a man made device is flying to the further reaches of the ...[text shortened]... Street so they could turn the power on in my new house .........................................
    While working for the Third Reich, Wernher von Braun dreamed of building a rocket that
    could fly to the moon. (That dream became true when he later worked for the USA.)
    In the meantime, his rockets were largely built by slave labourers who were usually
    worked to death at the Mittelbau-Dora concentration camp.
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
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    14 Jul '15 20:011 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    While working for the Third Reich, Wernher von Braun dreamed of building a rocket that
    could fly to the moon. (That dream became true when he later worked for the USA.)
    In the meantime, his rockets were largely built by slave labourers who were usually
    worked to death at the Mittelbau-Dora concentration camp.
    Oh, shut up. No Nazis using slave labor were involved in the New Horizons project as far as I'm aware.

    Genghis Khan killed a lot of people; that's about as relevant to the OP as your post.
  5. Zugzwang
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    14 Jul '15 20:041 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Oh, shut up. No Nazis using slave labor were involved in the New Horizons project as far as I'm aware.

    Genghis Khan killed a lot of people; that's about as relevant to the OP as your post.
    My point is that one should look at a complete perspective, not only the most positive
    aspect,of human technological achievements.

    My post was *not* intended as a comment *only* upon the 'New Horizons' project.
    By the way, the USA did *not* prosecute some Germans connected with the Mittelbau-Dora
    concentration camp because it needed their expertise to design rockets for the USA.
  6. The Catbird's Seat
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    14 Jul '15 21:33
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    My point is that one should look at a complete perspective, not only the most positive
    aspect,of human technological achievements.

    My post was *not* intended as a comment *only* upon the 'New Horizons' project.
    By the way, the USA did *not* prosecute some Germans connected with the Mittelbau-Dora
    concentration camp because it needed their expertise to design rockets for the USA.
    The point is, and well made, that you tend to hijack almost every thread you post to, without adding anything of value.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    14 Jul '15 21:49
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    My point is that one should look at a complete perspective, not only the most positive
    aspect,of human technological achievements.

    My post was *not* intended as a comment *only* upon the 'New Horizons' project.
    By the way, the USA did *not* prosecute some Germans connected with the Mittelbau-Dora
    concentration camp because it needed their expertise to design rockets for the USA.
    There are plenty of other threads where you are free to rail against what Nazis or the US government did more than half a century ago.

    I was hoping this thread could be an uplifting oasis. More and better pictures of Pluto are due in later tonight or early tomorrow. I'm anxious to see them no matter what happened at Mittelbau-Dora before I was born.
  8. Zugzwang
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    14 Jul '15 22:04
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    There are plenty of other threads where you are free to rail against what Nazis or the US government did more than half a century ago.

    I was hoping this thread could be an uplifting oasis. More and better pictures of Pluto are due in later tonight or early tomorrow. I'm anxious to see them no matter what happened at Mittelbau-Dora before I was born.
    In the *Science forum*, Soothfast already has created a thread about 'New Horizons',
    which includes more sophisticated technical discussion than this thread has.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    14 Jul '15 22:05
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    In the *Science forum*, Soothfast already has created a thread about 'New Horizons',
    which includes more sophisticated technical discussion than this thread has.
    Thanks for the information.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    15 Jul '15 01:041 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    My point is that one should look at a complete perspective, not only the most positive
    aspect,of human technological achievements.

    My post was *not* intended as a comment *only* upon the 'New Horizons' project.
    By the way, the USA did *not* prosecute some Germans connected with the Mittelbau-Dora
    concentration camp because it needed their expertise to design rockets for the USA.
    Where is your evidence for that? I never heard such a thing before. It is true that the U.S. and Russia hired some of the German scientist and engineers, but I had never heard they were involved in torturing anyone in the concentration camps.
  11. Zugzwang
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    15 Jul '15 01:244 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Where is your evidence for that? I never heard such a thing before.
    RJHinds should accept that he's extremely ignorant and misinformed about history.

    Much already has been written about the US government's determination (which included
    covering up alleged war crimes) to employ German scientists, engineers, and technicians
    to help develop weapons for the USA. The USSR also was competing to employ
    German scientists, engineers, and technicians to help develop its weapons.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

    To cite just one case, Arthur Rudolph was a German rocket engineer who was *not*
    investigated for war crimes *until after* his usefulness to the USA had expired.
    In exchange for not being prosecuted, he agreed to give up his US citizenship and return to Germany.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Rudolph

    The United States also granted immunity from prosecution and employed Japanese
    scientists and doctors who had conducted barbarous experiments on living Chinese
    to develop biological weapons for the USA. Not many Americans seriously objected
    to the Japanese torturing East Asians to death. Even long after the war, whenever
    American journalists have expressed any interest in this story, it's almost always been
    exclusively concerned with "Did the Japanese experiment on any Americans or Westerners?"
    If not, then the Japanese experiments--which were at least as barbarous as any done
    by the Nazis--on East Asians (nearly all Chinese) seem condoned by many Westerners.
    Many, if not most, Westerners have a 'double standard' about the value of white lives and non-white lives.

    For further reading:
    _Factories of Death: Japanese Biological Warfare 1932-45 and the American Cover-Up_
    by Sheldon Harris (who was an American professor of history)

    On one occasion, I met an American student (her father's a white American and her mother's
    a Japanese 'war bride' ) who believed that in the 1930s-40s Japan had always done its
    utmost to help the Chinese people as much possible and that all of the insane hatred,
    cruelty, and violence had come from the Chinese against the noble innocent Japanese.
    After a lecture on the history of the Sino-Japanese War, this student looked shocked,
    nearly ready to break down in tears. She looked like a young German who was proud
    of the Third Reich and had just heard about the Holocaust for the first time in her life.
    Having known some of the victims of Imperial Japan's aggression, I had no sympathy for her.
    I thought it was time for her to face some facts rather than believe comforting nationalistic myths.
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    15 Jul '15 02:04
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Where is your evidence for that? I never heard such a thing before. It is true that the U.S. and Russia hired some of the German scientist and engineers, but I had never heard they were involved in torturing anyone in the concentration camps.
    Thanks a lot, dimwit.
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    15 Jul '15 02:05
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    RJHinds should accept that he's extremely ignorant and misinformed about history.

    Much already has been written about the US government's determination (which included
    covering up alleged war crimes) to employ German scientists, engineers, and technicians
    to help develop weapons for the USA. The USSR also was competing to employ
    German scientists, ...[text shortened]... ought it was time for her to face some facts rather than believe comforting nationalistic myths.
    Thanks for sharing that information in a thread devoted to the New Horizons mission to Pluto.
  14. Zugzwang
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    15 Jul '15 02:161 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Thanks for sharing that information in a thread devoted to the New Horizons mission to Pluto.
    If I had not been asked a direct question, then I would not have shared that information.

    But if No1Marauder wants to play the "who's more off-topic" game, then why did he
    create a thread about the 'New Horizons mission to Pluto' in the Debates forum, which
    is supposed to be for (mostly political) arguments about controversial subjects when
    there *already* was a thread about it in the Science forum? Is there supposed to be
    something controversial about the New Horizons mission for people to debate here?

    In the long recent thread, 'Church members gunned down' (supposedly about the
    murders of black people in Charleston), No1Marauder and Finnegan spent most of
    that thread arguing about John Locke, which I would submit was far removed from the
    original topic. So if No1Marauder wants to accuse someone of writing off-topic,
    he should begin by accusing himself.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    15 Jul '15 02:16
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    RJHinds should accept that he's extremely ignorant and misinformed about history.

    Much already has been written about the US government's determination (which included
    covering up alleged war crimes) to employ German scientists, engineers, and technicians
    to help develop weapons for the USA. The USSR also was competing to employ
    German scientists, ...[text shortened]... ought it was time for her to face some facts rather than believe comforting nationalistic myths.
    Yes I admit that I am ignorant of this information, but apparently from your referenced article, neither the USA or Germany ever prosecuted and found him guilty of war crimes. So I say innocent until proven guilty.
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