Originally posted by flexmorePlease be so kind as to clarify this. Are you implying that if I become a citizen that my concerns about the treatment of non-citizens somehow disappears?
of course there is the fine print to consider ... HandofHecate (with a different but similar communication hiccup) seems to have a case for some special exclusion ... it seems that us citizenship may be around the corner to solve the problem anyway.
I have not been treated well by UCIS/INS, but, I've been treated better than many. In nine years in the US I have been detained once, threatened with deportation twice deported, insulted repeatedly, verbally abused, talked down to, treated like a criminal, answered extremely personal interview questions and denied entry to the US. All of these issues I've worked through politely and professionally, but, it has been an unpleasant experience. I'm all for screening those that come into the US, all I'm asking is that you treat people in a manner in which you want to be treated. Protect your country, but I'd encourage you not to do so indiscriminately.
I married my wife 3 years ago and went to Aruba for a honeymoon. I was detained upon my return and advised that I would not be allowed back into the US. My Visa was in order, all my documentation complete, yet the immigration offical was having a bad day and decided to ruin ours. Many tears from my wife later I was allowed to return to the US. This incident will forever mar what would have otherwise been a great start to our life together. This is crap and should not be tolerated. I shudder to think what the results of these issues would have been if I did not speak English.
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Originally posted by Hand of Hecatemmmm ... i must have misread something here ... i thought i read somewhere that you were going to happily become a citizen of the country in which you seem to live ...
Please be so kind as to clarify this. Are you implying that if I become a citizen that my concerns about the treatment of non-citizens somehow disappears?
I have not been treated well by UCIS/INS, but, I've been treated better than many. In nine years in the US I have been detained once, threatened with deportation twice deported, insulted repeat udder to think what the results of these issues would have been if I did not speak English.
you need to tell your story - i apologise if i went the wrong way.
Originally posted by flexmoreNo you haven't, I am asking for clarifiaction of your statement and conveying my ongoing concerns for how non-citizens are treated. Just because I intend to apply for citizenship, does not mean that I think the US should treat non-citizens like scum.
mmmm ... i must have misread something here ... i thought i read somewhere that you were going to become a citizen of the country in which you seem to live ...
you need to tell your story - i apologise if i went the wrong way.
Originally posted by Hand of HecateHit the bricks. Besides, we treat most of our citizens like scum, too.
No you haven't, I am asking for clarifiaction of your statement and conveying my ongoing concerns for how non-citizens are treated. Just because I intend to apply for citizenship, does not mean that I think the US should treat non-citizens like scum.
Originally posted by Hand of HecateThere's still a great distinction between residends and citizens. I'm currently officially a resident in a country of which I'm not a citizen.
No you haven't, I am asking for clarifiaction of your statement and conveying my ongoing concerns for how non-citizens are treated. Just because I intend to apply for citizenship, does not mean that I think the US should treat non-citizens like scum.
Denying some rights to all non-citizens is indefensable, but there is a case for non-residents found to be illegally inside the country.
The case for automatic deportation for illegal aliens is not that illogical in itself.
If one accepts that the borders cannot be open to all, then there must be a limit to be agreed upon to the ammount or profile of legal immigrants that a country can accept.
If this is true then, on one hand, not deporting illegal immigrants is in a way hypocrite and on the other hand it sounds pretty cold and inhuman in some situations.
It's not a question with an easy answer.
Note: I know this isn't exactly what you were talking about, I'm just providing some food for thought.
Originally posted by PalynkaI don't disagree. It's taken 9 years to get to the point I'm even elligible for citizenship. Illegals piss me off.
There's still a great distinction between residends and citizens. I'm currently officially a resident in a country of which I'm not a citizen.
Denying some rights to all non-citizens is indefensable, but there is a case for non-residents found to be illegally inside the country.
The case for automatic deportation for illegal aliens is not that illogica ...[text shortened]... this isn't exactly what you were talking about, I'm just providing some food for thought.
Originally posted by PhilodorHey if you want to start a thread about it go right ahead. I'll be there.
In the first place. you cretinous creep, you have charged that I have two ID's which is illegal under Rule3(a) of this site, and secondly that the holder of other 'account' to which you refer has been guilty of breaching Rule3(b). But the latter has not been 'banned' under that rule thus proving that your slanderous accusation is unfounded and merely based on your own personal malicious character.
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Originally posted by Hand of HecateYou take my words out of context like taking candy from a baby!🙄. First, why are you not a citizen after 10 years in the US. It took my mother just 4 years. My brother is married to a Mexican who STILL has no desire for citizenship...after 25 years! If one is going to make the US their home, they should declare that intention within 2 years of living here; if not, asta la vista! Thanks for your contribution in giving Americans jobs, but IMHO, you should have never ben allowed to own any property or business until you became a citizen. You couldn't do what you did in Mexico, so be grateful. Yes, you can travel freely, if your visa states so. No, you shouldn't be able to own a gun being a non-citizen. One should have to learn English in order to become a citizen. A common/single language is the "glue" that binds people of many cultures. Want to speak Swahili? Fine, just know English when I order my hamburger! Keep you culture, but don't trad on mine by singing the "Star Spangled Banner" in Spanish...or teaching children to say the pledge of allegiance to the Mexican flag as a part of "cultural" learning....what a croc of mierda! I love strange foods...bring it on! You're right that this country was built by immigrants, and it was called a "melting pot", and do you know why? Because all of the ethnicities blended to become AMERICANS. Now, we are a "mosaic" of cultures that don't want to assimilate to embrace the American culture; we are becoming Balkanized. Remember Jugoslavia in the 90s?
So you'd take my home from me? I employ a dozen American Citizens, I'm married to an American, I make a valuable contribution and you'd deny me the privledge of owning property and making a home for myself? Can I voice my opinions if they don't coincide with yours? Can I travel freely? Can I own a gun? Can I pursue citizenship? Does it matter if otting down a path that will abolish the freedoms you and others have fought to perserve.
Originally posted by orfeoYes, deport them! There is no way Muslims and Judaeo/Christians can live in peace together....in the long run...besides, most Muslims think of themselves as Muslim first, then a citizen of whatever country they live in second; however, European Muslims don't even consider themselves loyal to Europe at all...go figure.
So... what happens if an American citizen becomes a Muslim? Strip them of their citizenship? Deport them? Jail them?
Hmm, I seem to remember a lot of people around here describing countries that punished people for their religious views as being backward and barbaric.
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Originally posted by lauseyDeport those who refuse to refute Islam to England where you can pay for their cell-phone. Christians, Jews, et. al., except Muslims, will be welcomed until they start flying planes into buildings, then we deport them just as we do the Muslims. See, as president, I'd have America back on her feet in a matter of a few years....just give me a chance! Pleeeeze!
I was about to say something of simular lines to chancre's post, but you beat me to it. Well said. 🙂
On simular grounds, would he allow non-citizens who were Muslim but became Christian to be welcomed with open arms?
What about all the other religions/beliefs in the US that aren't Jewish or Christian?
Originally posted by Hand of HecateI feel for you, then. That's what is F*****-** with our country. Illegals get amnesty and drain our resourses, and you provide jobs for Americans and can't become a citizen....what's the hold-up, anyway?. See, if I was President, that S*** would cease to exist!
I don't disagree. It's taken 9 years to get to the point I'm even elligible for citizenship. Illegals piss me off.
Originally posted by chancremechanicNewsflash: Most Europeans don't consider themselves loyal to Europe.
Yes, deport them! There is no way Muslims and Judaeo/Christians can live in peace together....in the long run...besides, most Muslims think of themselves as Muslim first, then a citizen of whatever country they live in second; however, European Muslims don't even consider themselves loyal to Europe at all...go figure.
Originally posted by chancremechanicWow, so many bits of crap in one post. Where to start...
Yes, deport them! There is no way Muslims and Judaeo/Christians can live in peace together....in the long run...besides, most Muslims think of themselves as Muslim first, then a citizen of whatever country they live in second; however, European Muslims don't even consider themselves loyal to Europe at all...go figure.
1. Muslims and Judaeo/Christians have lived together peacefully in many parts of the world over the centuries. Who are you to say whether peace is the 'normal' state or war is the 'normal' state?
2. I find it faintly hilarious that you insist on lumping Jewish and Christian people together all the time in this context. Like THEY'VE succeeded in living together in peace?!
3. The suggestion that most Muslims think of themselves as Muslim first is just plain old bias on your part. There are any number of Muslims who say - PUBLICLY - the exact opposite.
4. Why the heck do you have the notion that there's a CONFLICT between the two statuses anyway?! How is being a Muslims contradictory with being a citizen of America, or Australia, or pretty well anywhere that has freedom of religion? Muslims obey laws and pay taxes and vote just like anybody else. There are CHRISTIAN nutters who describe themselves as Christian first and American second, and use that as an excuse to disobey American laws. That hardly justifies a sweeping statement about Christians, because these people are actually NUTTERS first, [religion of choice] second.
5. Europe isn't a country you can be loyal to. It's like asking you to be loyal to North and Central America.
Originally posted by orfeoIn the past, they could live together but not anymore, thanks to the Islamofascistas and their rabid Imams. The Balkans were the proving ground, capice?
Wow, so many bits of crap in one post. Where to start...
1. Muslims and Judaeo/Christians have lived together peacefully in many parts of the world over the centuries. Who are you to say whether peace is the 'normal' state or war is the 'normal' state?
2. I find it faintly hilarious that you insist on lumping Jewish and Christian people together all th ...[text shortened]... try you can be loyal to. It's like asking you to be loyal to North and Central America.
Jews and Christians get along just fine in the US. Europe is where things went whackey.
Read the book "While Europe Slept". Muslims are the least patriotic of any group when living in a non-Muslim country.
I agree with some of your last statement, except the Christian "nutters' are only about 1-5% of Christians, while the Muslim "nutters" number about 50%