No one had died ...

@moonbus said
So, what does the one you worship as Lord and Savior counsel? Leave unfortunate people to rot in poverty and famine?

Throughout the Bible, the instruction is to help the poor and be charitable. This is a general guideline to individuals, groups and governments. Aid to African countries have been on going for over 60 years. So this is not about poverty and famine.

In the early days of Moses and Israel, there was no such thing as unemployment or laziness. All people had a job to do and it must be done. If they did not or could not there was relief in the form of thites.

However the problem of laziness worsened by the time of Paul who had this to say:

Our friends, we command you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to keep away from all believers who are living a lazy life and who do not follow the instructions that we gave them.

You yourselves know very well that you should do just what we did. We were not lazy when we were with you. We did not accept anyone's support without paying for it. Instead, we worked and toiled; we kept working day and night so as not to be an expense to any of you.

We did this, not because we do not have the right to demand our support; we did it to be an example for you to follow. While we were with you, we used to tell you, "Whoever refuses to work is not allowed to eat." We say this because we hear that there are some people among you who live lazy lives and who do nothing except meddle in other people's business.

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ we command these people and warn them to lead orderly lives and work to earn their own living.
(2Th 3:6-12 GNB)

People have to be forced to work if they are able.

@Rajk999 said
Moonbus is a black guy living in Switzerland, living the good life among white Europeans. Naturally he is not going to want free money flowing into Africa to slow down.

Ad hominem fallacy. My skin color has nothing to do with the argument here.

@Rajk999 said
Africans and those of African origin have some specific cultural practices. One of these is polygamy. This create millions of damaged homes and single mothers and uneducated children..... in the end mass poverty and starvation.

Then you need to check into what causes corruption at such a massive scale. What is the cause of modern slavery still in existance all over Afr ...[text shortened]... tion) than representative of South African norms broadly.
*****************************************

Thank you for making my point for me. I agree with you completely that many people(s) in the the Third World are making poor decisions. Women in particular are under-empowered and in many countries, especially in sub-Saharan Africa, do not have control over their bodies. Several European countries, by contrast, have already implemented, or are in the process of implementing, "yes means yes" laws which effectively give women a veto over whether sexual relations occur or not. These are compelling reasons to fund family support counseling in Third World countries, to educate people and help them make better decisions, and to empower women. Educated and empowered women make smarter decisions and fewer unwanted babies.

@Rajk999 said
Throughout the Bible, the instruction is to help the poor and be charitable. This is a general guideline to individuals, groups and governments. Aid to African countries have been on going for over 60 years. So this is not about poverty and famine.

In the early days of Moses and Israel, there was no such thing as unemployment or laziness. All people had a job to do and ...[text shortened]... o earn their own living.
(2Th 3:6-12 GNB)[/i]

People have to be forced to work if they are able.

I did not ask you what the Bible says. I asked you what Jesus would have counseled.



Are you saying people in the Third World are lazy? And that's why the U.S.A. should stop sending them food and medical aid?

@Rajk999 said
Throughout the Bible, the instruction is to help the poor and be charitable. This is a general guideline to individuals, groups and governments. Aid to African countries have been on going for over 60 years. So this is not about poverty and famine.

In the early days of Moses and Israel, there was no such thing as unemployment or laziness. All people had a job to do and ...[text shortened]... o earn their own living.
(2Th 3:6-12 GNB)[/i]

People have to be forced to work if they are able.

“”Throughout the Bible, the instruction is to help the Poor and be charitable.””

Of course, and it goes without saying, it is a given, that everyone is charitable

But when a socialist says that, I have a feeling he is thinking in terms of what Marx’s definition of charitable was. Since everyone who had something gave everything that they had to someone else, that concept implies that there would be no other concept, of being charitable. It would be superfluous , I would think.
That is, giving your assets to another person is built-in to Marxism.

@AverageJoe1 said
“”Throughout the Bible, the instruction is to help the Poor and be charitable.””

Of course, and it goes without saying, it is a given, that everyone is charitable

But when a socialist says that, I have a feeling he is thinking in terms of what Marx’s definition of charitable was. Since everyone who had something gave everything that they had to someone else, that c ...[text shortened]... luous , I would think.
That is, giving your assets to another person is built-in to Marxism.

You can give your assets as well if you so choose to do so. However governments are not required to do that. The Bible supports hard work. The sharing of assets, communal property, which was practiced by the early church is what Marxism is about. That is not a practical workable system.

@moonbus said
I did not ask you what the Bible says. I asked you what Jesus would have counseled.



Are you saying people in the Third World are lazy? And that's why the U.S.A. should stop sending them food and medical aid?

Jesus's counsel was for individuals. Jesus had nothing to say about governments. I would imagine that there must be charity at the government level as well, but after 60 or more years of charity with nothing to show for it means there are serious underlying issues which must be first addressed.

I have lived in both developed and 3rd world countries. The difference in work ethic, and dependency syndrome between these two groups is really vast. So yes, 3rd world countries are mostly backward because of laziness, lack of drive and motivation, very little desire to take risks and improve oneself, lots of time off and lost work days etc etc.

@moonbus said
Thank you for making my point for me. I agree with you completely that many people(s) in the the Third World are making poor decisions. Women in particular are under-empowered and in many countries, especially in sub-Saharan Africa, do not have control over their bodies. Several European countries, by contrast, have already implemented, or are in the process of implementing, ...[text shortened]... and to empower women. Educated and empowered women make smarter decisions and fewer unwanted babies.

You might think women want to change but poeple have tried over the decades and although some do, the vast majority do not. If the world changes the lot of women and girls in these areas regarding education and job opportunities things might change. But most dont want to.

@Rajk999 said
Jesus's counsel was for individuals. Jesus had nothing to say about governments.

Jesus wants individuals to care of the poor but not the government?

@vivify said
Jesus wants individuals to care of the poor but not the government?

If I may….
The government should indeed take care of the destitute in the society of sorrowful people around us. They would do that with money set aside from the taxpayers.
I will tell everyone else to be self-reliant and take care of themselves, with no dependence on government. Further, government would have no power to tell those people what to do with their money or whether they should contribute one dollar to anyone that they do not want to contribute money to. That is a free society. Please don’t tell the liberals here that I said that they will be coming and beating down my door.

Back to you Raj, had to step in with common sense . freedom makes for great societies

@AverageJoe1 said
If I may….
The government should indeed take care of the destitute in the society of sorrowful people around us. They would do that with money set aside from the taxpayers.
I will tell everyone else to be self-reliant and take care of themselves, with no dependence on government. Further, government would have no power to tell those people what to do with their m ...[text shortened]... wn my door.

Back to you Raj, had to step in with common sense . freedom makes for great societies

Correct. This is in line with what God expects of governments. Most countries have some kind of welfare which depends on taxes. I will add that there is that additional burden of the government of providing employment, or encouraging the rich to do it. Paul said a man should not eat if he does not work. In all societies able bodied men must work or contribute to society in some way.

@Rajk999 said
Correct. This is in line with what God expects of governments. Most countries have some kind of welfare which depends on taxes. I will add that there is that additional burden of the government of providing employment, or encouraging the rich to do it. Paul said a man should not eat if he does not work. In all societies able bodied men must work or contribute to society in some way.

As the liberals on this forum do not agree with Paul, why don’t they say so? Is that not the crux of what is different about us and them? We say exactly what we think. They dance and dance and dance..
Along the same thought process, I have asked them time and time again, is any person entitled to the lab of another? Not a one of them has ever answered it. They and you and I all know the answer ….why do they not answer ?