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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    15 Sep '11 05:22
    The Green party in the European parliament has a proposal (I'm not sure if it's actually been proposed yet) to join the complete energy system of Europe into one integral network.

    Then using solar energy from Spain (and I believe Turkey), wind energy from Germany and the North sea, hydro-energy from various countries and tidal stream / tidal barrage energy they claim the whole of Europe can be supplied with more than sufficient energy on a constant basis.

    What do you all think?
    Is it possible?
    Is it realistic?
  2. 15 Sep '11 07:03
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    The Green party in the European parliament has a proposal (I'm not sure if it's actually been proposed yet) to join the complete energy system of Europe into one integral network.

    Then using solar energy from Spain (and I believe Turkey), wind energy from Germany and the North sea, hydro-energy from various countries and tidal stream / tidal barrage ene ...[text shortened]... cient energy on a constant basis.

    What do you all think?
    Is it possible?
    Is it realistic?
    An interconnection of bad ideas does not make one good idea.
  3. 15 Sep '11 09:16
    Possible, yes. Realistic, no, at least not on the short term. There are also transport losses when transporting power, so there are limits to how far away one can produce power.
  4. 15 Sep '11 18:28
    Despite the resistance from oil interests, these technologies are taking off and drawing the interest of business people around the world. It's a question of will. But here in the US, Solyndra will be the excuse for the lack of vision. We're stuck in our ways.

    This GOPer supported green energy before he opposed it.

    http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/09/stearns-praised-stimulus-investments-in-green-tech-before-he-panned-them.php?ref=fpblg
  5. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    16 Sep '11 05:38
    Isn't it funny that if it doesn't concern the US or Israel, nobody seems interested in talking about it?

    As far as I've been able to tell, if this plan goes ahead it will be the next step in energy evolution.

    Not interesting?
  6. 16 Sep '11 06:18
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Isn't it funny that if it doesn't concern the US or Israel, nobody seems interested in talking about it?

    As far as I've been able to tell, if this plan goes ahead it will be the next step in energy evolution.

    Not interesting?
    Not as interesting as "drill baby drill" I guess.
  7. 16 Sep '11 12:38
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    The Green party in the European parliament has a proposal (I'm not sure if it's actually been proposed yet) to join the complete energy system of Europe into one integral network.

    Then using solar energy from Spain (and I believe Turkey), wind energy from Germany and the North sea, hydro-energy from various countries and tidal stream / tidal barrage ene ...[text shortened]... cient energy on a constant basis.

    What do you all think?
    Is it possible?
    Is it realistic?
    When I first read about this or a comparable scheme, the main resources were supposed to be geothermal energy from Iceland, wind and tidal energy from Northern Europe, and solar energy from Spain and the Sahara. I suppose the last component of the scheme may have to wait until we know what kind of regimes are going to emerge from the North African part of the Arab Spring.

    Given that it is obviously is no one's interests to rely primarily on energy sourced from unstable parts of the world, I think this thread ought to be of interest to Americans too. I once read (but can't now source the comment) that a set of solar panels covering a few square miles of the Nevada desert could, in theory, provide all of the energy needs of the United States.
  8. 16 Sep '11 17:58
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    When I first read about this or a comparable scheme, the main resources were supposed to be geothermal energy from Iceland, wind and tidal energy from Northern Europe, and solar energy from Spain and the Sahara. I suppose the last component of the scheme may have to wait until we know what kind of regimes are going to emerge from the North African part of ...[text shortened]... s of the Nevada desert could, in theory, provide all of the energy needs of the United States.
    I think that's a bit exaggerated, but I've heard that solar panels on a certain percentage of homes would eliminate the need for oil imports. I realize that's not too helpful, but the percentage was considerably less than 50 percent.

    I've always loved the irony in the alternative energy opposition. They fight any attempts to convert to solar tooth and nail, and then to back up their arguments they cite the fact that less than 1 percent of the grid's electricity comes from solar. We need to keep the percentage low.... because the percentage is low.

    Sometimes the lack of shame is profound.
  9. 16 Sep '11 19:30
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Isn't it funny that if it doesn't concern the US or Israel, nobody seems interested in talking about it?

    As far as I've been able to tell, if this plan goes ahead it will be the next step in energy evolution.

    Not interesting?
    I don't know a thing about your power grid in Europe...but one would have to know the condition of the grid before an answer could be given..Is it possible to link? I wouldn't think it's in a stage where it could be done right away, so what would the timeline be for completion?
  10. 16 Sep '11 19:36 / 1 edit
    I like the idea of using solar and wind for our energy. However it's not real feasible for large operations..... say a semiconductor plant where even the loss of 1/2 a cycle of power takes most of those tools down, and up time is so important.
    WE ran one heck of a UPS system, and had 5 -5 KV back up generators on site... they took 10 seconds to sense the power loss, and pick up load in priority, life safety first.....

    Could solar power provide that sustainable electricity? would it run a 4500 HP electric motor?
    I'm working on a design for a cabin in wyo right now that will included passive solar, and be totally off the grid.... No bills. I that case I think solar and wind is great, for large industry, probably not that good...
  11. 16 Sep '11 20:30
    I can't figure out why they don't cover parking lots with solar panels. Covered parking and energy generation, it's a win-win. Also, solar panels in the desert sounds like a no brainer, surely someone's already thought of this, is the cost too prohibitive?
  12. 17 Sep '11 01:23
    solar power would be dead in the water here in the USA without the tax incentives given to buyers..... how long can that last?
    There's a group of enviromentalists complaining about birds getting killed in wind turbines now too...so WTF?
    BTW
    Been In oregon now for 15 years, have yet to see a spotted owl.... :-)
  13. 17 Sep '11 01:25 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I can't figure out why they don't cover parking lots with solar panels. Covered parking and energy generation, it's a win-win. Also, solar panels in the desert sounds like a no brainer, surely someone's already thought of this, is the cost too prohibitive?
    yes,, without tax incentives.....
    They have roll on photo voltaics roofing now, but are very ineffecient. Without tax incentives, the payback is over 30 years....

    http://www.sunelco.com/incentives.html
  14. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    17 Sep '11 05:42
    Are power centrals built in the US without tax payers money?
  15. 17 Sep '11 07:49
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I can't figure out why they don't cover parking lots with solar panels. Covered parking and energy generation, it's a win-win. Also, solar panels in the desert sounds like a no brainer, surely someone's already thought of this, is the cost too prohibitive?
    Solar panels are quite expensive and also quite fragile. Their efficiency is improving, though - if oil prices continue to rise and the efficiency of the panels continues to improve they will probably be competitive with fossil fuels when the oil price hits 300 or 400 dollars or so.