Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    14 Dec '18 01:17
    https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/oct/11/paying-to-stay-safe-why-women-dont-walk-as-much-as-men

    "Paying to stay safe': why women don't walk as much as men
    A study shows in most countries, women walk significantly fewer steps
    each day than men. Talia Shadwell hears from people all over the
    world saying the same thing: it’s down to personal safety, not laziness"

    "Feeling forced to use transport instead of walking makes safety a
    privilege, according to Stop Street Harassment founder Holly Kearl.
    Women can only choose not to walk if they have the financial means
    to access transport – which means for teenage girls in particular,
    cost can be a barrier to safety."

    "PhD student Natalie Jester says she sometimes “feels like prey”
    after dark in central Bristol. She will regularly spend her wages on a
    cab or bus home to avoid walking in the centre, where she can feel
    threatened by the groups of men milling about drinking.

    “I feel really resentful that I don’t feel safe enough to walk around my
    city, to the point that I have to pay extra money,” Jester says. “I don’t
    think men really understand the degree to which women feel unsafe."
  2. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
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    14 Dec '18 05:06
    Women take fewer steps?

    I remember a programme on TV in the 80’s and there was a point being made about house-wives (the term already had my mother snarling like a feral badger with rabies) not sporting enough.

    And then some or other professor explained that the average home-worker (my mother spat out: “Unpaid &@€&ing slavery!&rdquo😉 walks up and down the stairs 40+ times a day. Often with loads (babies, whisky bottles... this latter may just have been situational... washing baskets, etc.).

    And that the problem wasn’t movement, but was dietry.

    So, I’m rather interested in why women have stopped walking up and down the bloody stairs.
  3. Behind the scenes
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    14 Dec '18 06:411 edit
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/oct/11/paying-to-stay-safe-why-women-dont-walk-as-much-as-men

    "Paying to stay safe': why women don't walk as much as men
    A study shows in most countries, women walk significantly fewer steps
    each day than men. Talia Shadwell hears from people all over the
    world saying the same thing: it’s down to personal safety, not lazi ...[text shortened]... money,” Jester says. “I don’t
    think men really understand the degree to which women feel unsafe."
    This depends entirely on when one lives. In my neighborhood women walk far more than men. Most are housewives that walk several miles a day to stay in shape with their friends while their husbands are at work.
  4. Joined
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    14 Dec '18 08:09
    @shavixmir said
    Women take fewer steps?

    I remember a programme on TV in the 80’s and there was a point being made about house-wives (the term already had my mother snarling like a feral badger with rabies) not sporting enough.

    And then some or other professor explained that the average home-worker (my mother spat out: “Unpaid &@€&ing slavery!&rdquo😉 walks up and down the stairs 40+ times ...[text shortened]... ietry.

    So, I’m rather interested in why women have stopped walking up and down the bloody stairs.
    Don't be dense. I am sure you understand her point.
  5. Joined
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    14 Dec '18 08:10
    @mchill said
    This depends entirely on when one lives. In my neighborhood women walk far more than men. Most are housewives that walk several miles a day to stay in shape with their friends while their husbands are at work.
    Whooosh. Another one.
  6. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    14 Dec '18 08:28
    I am curious what the solution is supposed to be.

    Or is this a problem without a solution?

    I often wonder this because, as a 34 year old man, I was exposed to many, many talks about consent & respect. So, I do not know what you can really do at this point besides increase the police presence or, dare I say?, revert to a culture where women are chaperoned by men or in groups with one another.
  7. Zugzwang
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    14 Dec '18 19:39
    @philokalia said
    I am curious what the solution is supposed to be.

    Or is this a problem without a solution?

    I often wonder this because, as a 34 year old man, I was exposed to many, many talks about consent & respect. So, I do not know what you can really do at this point besides increase the police presence or, dare I say?, revert to a culture where women are chaperoned by men or in groups with one another.
    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/dec/13/what-would-a-city-that-is-safe-for-women-look-like

    "What would a city that is safe for women look like?"

    "The repercussions go beyond the physical and psychological toll on individuals
    who have been attacked. Harassment and fear of violence can impede free movement
    of girls and women and stop them reaching their full potential, both socially and economically.
    “If women feel afraid,” says Laura Somoggi, who manages the biennial Womanity
    award for the prevention of violence against women, “it could undermine their ability
    to work or go to school or university which affects their empowerment, their rights.”
    Fear of attack is a bar to women escaping poverty."
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    14 Dec '18 20:11
    @philokalia said
    I am curious what the solution is supposed to be.

    Or is this a problem without a solution?

    I often wonder this because, as a 34 year old man, I was exposed to many, many talks about consent & respect. So, I do not know what you can really do at this point besides increase the police presence or, dare I say?, revert to a culture where women are chaperoned by men or in groups with one another.
    How about promoting a culture that respects women as co-equal members of society? One that doesn't treat them as second-class citizens? Or prey? Or property? Or is that too much to ask?
  9. Zugzwang
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    14 Dec '18 21:391 edit
    @suzianne said
    How about promoting a culture that respects women as co-equal members of society? One that doesn't treat them as second-class citizens? Or prey? Or property? Or is that too much to ask?
    (Suzianne replied to Philokalia.)

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-41603115

    "100 Women: Are journeys safer with women-only carriages?"

    "The data we have to go on suggests women feel safer travelling in a separate carriage,
    and that it could indeed make them safer for the duration of their journey.
    But segregated transport fails to address the root causes of harassment: social acceptance,
    unbalanced power dynamics and the lack of repercussions for offenders."
  10. Joined
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    16 Dec '18 09:08
    Feel unsafe.
    Feel safer.

    Meanwhile, the actual statistics say that men are more likely to come to harm on the street, but women keep insisting that they feel unsafe.

    Perhaps the solution doesn't always lie in blaming men and demanding that we change your feelings?
  11. Standard membervivify
    rain
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    16 Dec '18 14:311 edit
    @shallow-blue said
    Meanwhile, the actual statistics say that men are more likely to come to harm on the street
    Can you post a link?
  12. Behind the scenes
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    16 Dec '18 22:35
    @suzianne said
    How about promoting a culture that respects women as co-equal members of society? One that doesn't treat them as second-class citizens? Or prey? Or property? Or is that too much to ask?
    How about promoting a culture that respects women as co-equal members of society? One that doesn't treat them as second-class citizens? Or prey? Or property? Or is that too much to ask?



    This sounds fine to me, but looking at the situation in the middle east and asia (are you listening Duchess) it's going to take a bit more than "promoting" to bring this about.
  13. Zugzwang
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    16 Dec '18 22:45
    @mchill said
    How about promoting a culture that respects women as co-equal members of society? One that doesn't treat them as second-class citizens? Or prey? Or property? Or is that too much to ask?

    This sounds fine to me, but looking at the situation in the middle east and asia (are you listening Duchess) it's going to take a bit more than "promoting" to bring this about.
    (Mchill replied to Suzianne.)

    "...looking at THE situation in the middle east and asia ..."
    --Mchill

    Contrary to Mchill's ignorant stereotype, the situations (plural emphasized) for women
    in the Middle East and Asia vary greatly in terms of status, safety, and opportunities.

    Western expat (white) women who live in Tokyo, for instance, have said that
    they feel much safer from sexual violence there than, say, in New York City.
    An American woman said that she was accustomed to getting drunk and walking
    (or staggering) home alone at night in Tokyo without fearing for her safety.
    After she returned to the USA, she realized that was a dangerous habit that she had to unlearn.
  14. Subscriberdivegeester
    Leave Means Leave
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    16 Dec '18 22:55
    @suzianne said
    How about promoting a culture that respects women as co-equal members of society? One that doesn't treat them as second-class citizens? Or prey? Or property? Or is that too much to ask?
    Do you live in a culture that treats women a “prey” or “property” or “second class citizens”? Is this why you find yourself getting sexually assaulted in bars and using your martial arts skills to send these men crashing through countless bar tables as you defend yourself?
  15. Zugzwang
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    16 Dec '18 23:111 edit
    @divegeester said
    Do you live in a culture that treats women a “prey” or “property” or “second class citizens”? Is this why you find yourself getting sexually assaulted in bars and using your martial arts skills to send these men crashing through countless bar tables as you defend yourself?
    (Divegeester replied to Suzianne.)

    "Do you live in a culture that treats women a “prey” or “property” or “second class citizens”?"
    --Divegeester

    American feminists routinely complain that women are treated as 'prey' (of sexual violence),
    'property' (of possessive men), or "second class citizens' (in terms of power and money).
    Sneering ignorant men routinely claim that feminists must be absolutely wrong.

    Does Divegeester (condescendingly) presume that Suzianne has no experience of sexual assault?
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