@moonbus saidYes, I made a post about this last year. Native American tribes have traditionally recognized at least 5 genders. What is happening today, as regards breaking the false two-gender dichotomy, is really the beginning of humanity's return to its roots—a truly conservative movement, in other words. Current attempts to suppress transgenderism and whatnot are doomed to failure precisely because it runs contrary to basic humanity, and predictions that transgenderism will somehow precipitate the collapse of civilization is hysterical hogwash.
Several genders have been recognized by other societies and cultures, for thousands of years before Puritans settled America. Banning people from talking about it won’t make it go away.
As an aside, homosexuality is quite prevalent not only in hundreds of primate species, but throughout the animal kingdom. New study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-025-02945-8
Same-sex sexual behaviour (SSB) is widespread across animal species; however, its evolutionary origins and ecological underpinnings remain poorly understood. In social animals, SSB is probably shaped by both genetic and environmental factors. For instance, a recent study in rhesus macaques indicates that while SSB is partially heritable and genetically based, it is also strongly influenced by environmental and social conditions. Here we compiled species-level data on 491 non-human primate species, documenting SSB occurrence and prevalence in 59 species, and examined its associations with 15 environmental, life history and social traits using phylogenetic regression and structural equation modelling. SSB occurrence was more likely in species inhabiting drier environments with increased food scarcity and predation pressure, in species with greater size dimorphism and longer lifespans and in those with more complex social structures and hierarchies. Structural equation modelling further indicated that environmental and life history traits influence SSB mainly indirectly, whereas social complexity directly promotes its occurrence. Together, these findings highlight SSB as a context-dependent behaviour shaped by interactions among ecological, life history and social factors, offering insights into the sexual diversity and social evolution of primates.
As for Plato, we can see who truly threatens the foundations of "Western" civilization: Trumpism and the MAGA movement. To attack and suppress one of the cornerstones of "Western" philosophical and political thought is as destructive and radical as it gets, and it is incumbent upon all who value truth, beauty, justice, and free thought—in short, anyone who honors the classic liberal tradition—to hold a candle against the current darkness and defy the fascists in power.
We all need to hang on, because the US empire is finally entering its death throes. Right now, day by day, it is following the same script as other empires throughout history that became arrogant enough to think the interests and concerns of the rest of the world didn't any longer matter.
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/primates-same-sex-sexual-behavior-evolution-rcna252693
Same-sex sexual behavior observed in dozens of primate species, suggesting evolutionary origin
A new study posits that same-sex sexual behavior developed to help primates in complex social groups ease tension, reduce conflict and build bonds.
The authors posit that same-sex behavior developed evolutionarily to help primates in complex social groups ease tension, reduce conflict and build bonds. A combination of genetics and external stress — from the environment or from social systems — appears to drive this behavior, they conclude.
“What we found shows that same-sex is not like something bizarre, aberrant or rare. It’s everywhere, it’s very useful, it’s very important,” said Vincent Savolainen, director of the Georgina Mace Centre for the Living Planet at Imperial College London and an author of the study.
To answer a question a MAGA-bot asked several pages ago, the above-cited research is precisely why homosexuality should be an subject of inquiry in an educational setting, and especially at the college and university level. We deny a basic ingredient of humanity by suppressing discussion and analysis of same-sex behaviors, and thereby deny arriving at a more complete understanding of ourselves as a species. Such denial is purely fear-based, and as a civilization and society we cannot let intellectual cowards dictate what adults are allowed to discuss and study.
@Soothfast
Thank you for weighing in here.
The Christians here have no idea how beholden early Christian theology was to Platonism. Christianity would never have appealed to the educated Roman classes without it; it would have died out, along with Manichaeism, Gnosticism, the Essenes, and a hundred other sects.
@Rajk999 saidThere were lots of things Plato did not condemn as Christians would do. Is that a reason to ban his writings in a university philosophy course, in your opinion?
I did not post my opinion on this as the topic when off the rails there. Plato did not directly condemn a homosexual lifestyle the way a conservative Christian would do. Plato does have some writings that appear to accept a man/man relationship [not necessarily sexual], as the ideal, and this can be either wrong or misleading and clearly contrary to religious teachings. As ...[text shortened]... no indication of that in Platos writing, although Im no expert and I should read up some more here.
@moonbus saidNo. I did a bit more reading up on Plato and it does not seem to be offensive for college students regardless of their religious bias. So the ban is unreasonable.
There were lots of things Plato did not condemn as Christians would do. Is that a reason to ban his writings in a university philosophy course, in your opinion?
@Rajk999 saidThere, you see, reading Plato never did anyone any harm. Thanks for taking the trouble.
No. I did a bit more reading up on Plato and it does not seem to be offensive for college students regardless of their religious bias. So the ban is unreasonable.
🙂