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Plato -- sorry, much too radical.

Plato -- sorry, much too radical.

Debates


@moonbus said
It is my contention that the Trump administration is pursuing a deliberate policy to stupidify America--to make America stupid. Trump's administration is defunding schools and universities, defunding museums, interfering in curricula, defunding research, across the board, and at the same time supporting RFK Jr.'s junk science. There is a clear pattern: make America dumb.

I ...[text shortened]... ced this, and they are, IMO, deliberately destroying education in America in order to stay in power.
I love how those who oppose the idea of critical thinking would prefer that Americans not be taught how to think. That somehow being taught a process of how to weigh up information, how to consider the bias in any pronouncement, how to consider the conflict of interest of the person speaking is somehow inherently biased and therefore to be avoided, rejected, cancelled.

Apparently rather than being taught how to think the education system would better serve their student cohort to simply accept what is being said by any authority figure. Much more preferable to swallow information whole without any questions. So much more preferable to accept what's being said as being true. I mean everyone in positions of right wing authority is totally to be trusted and why waste time considering whether the "facts" being presented have any truth to them, right? I mean MAGA has no bias. They only speak the truth, right?

Your observation of Ein Volke is sadly correct I fear. Though the only silver lining is Trump is largely passed it and will not be around with as much cognitive vigour as his German hero.

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@kmax87 said
I love how those who oppose the idea of critical thinking would prefer that Americans not be taught how to think. That somehow being taught a process of how to weigh up information, how to consider the bias in any pronouncement, how to consider the conflict of interest of the person speaking is somehow inherently biased and therefore to be avoided, rejected, cancelled.

Appa ...[text shortened]... Trump is largely passed it and will not be around with as much cognitive vigour as his German hero.
Trump is a marionette. There are others in the background, the Project-2025 people, and Vance is the pony they plan to ride to power. I'm not usually given to conspiracy theories, but the Project 2025 people have made no secret of what they want to do; it's been on their web site for some time.

I wonder how many here, apart from myself and Ghost, have actually read Plato. Some people here are writing as if Plato were an instruction manual how to become a homosexual. In point of fact, there is no such person as a homosexual--and there was no word for this in ancient Greek. The nouns "homo-" and "heterosexual" were literally invented in the 19th century. Calling someone a homosexual is as ridiculous as calling someone a bondage. There is no such person. Homosexuality is something one does, not something one is.

In point of fact, Plato does not advocate homosexuality at all. What he presents is a method of philosophizing, which consists in a rational debate about some issue--what can be known, what the law is, what love is, etc.--with several interlocutors each presenting in turn his best explanation or argument for some position relevant to the topic. Critical thinking, in other words. That's what Plato is on about. Banning Plato from a philosophy curriculum is tantamount to banning critical thinking.

We're not talking about indoctrinating children here. We're talking about young adults, college students, mostly 18-21 yr. olds, eager to learn how to use their minds.


@moonbus said
Trump is a marionette. There are others in the background, the Project-2025 people, and Vance is the pony they plan to ride to power. I'm not usually given to conspiracy theories, but the Project 2025 people have made no secret of what they want to do; it's been on their web site for some time.

I wonder how many here, apart from myself and Ghost, have actually read ...[text shortened]... about young adults, college students, mostly 18-21 yr. olds, eager to learn how to use their minds.
“We're not talking about indoctrinating children here”

Yes…yes you are


@Indonesia-Phil said
In one sense there is no 'need' to teach about homosexuality, or any kind of sexuality for that matter, our sexuality isn't a learned thing. To teach discrimination against any form of sexuality ain't a good thing, however.
Do you realise that they are in fact teaching about sexuality, homosexuality and other forms of perverted sexuality, to kids as young as 6, in some US schools?

Nobody is teaching people to discriminate against homosexuality in schools. If it is picked up then it is a society thing which you cannot change.


@moonbus said
We get it that you think non-heterosexuality is an affront to God and nature. Americans and most Europeans live with constitutions which guarantee equal protection of the laws for everyone and prohibit discrimination. Like it or not, this applies to people you don't like.

'Normal' conservatives abhor goobermint interfering in people's lives--just ask AvJoe here, he'll conf ...[text shortened]... can read and not read. But we are not living in normal times, not since Trump is in office (again).
I never said anything is an affront to God. I said it is a sin, like all other sins. If a man tells a lie, then it is a sin, and I am not saying that a man who tells lies should not be guaranteed equal protection of the law and prohibit discrimination against him. Neither have I said that I will treat the man who tells lies any differently.

If there is a group of people like ILA, who campaign for those tell lies then I will not support such an association, and if they have a week of celebration for liars, I will not be part of it.


@Rajk999 said
I never said anything is an affront to God. I said it is a sin, like all other sins. If a man tells a lie, then it is a sin, and I am not saying that a man who tells lies should not be guaranteed equal protection of the law and prohibit discrimination against him. Neither have I said that I will treat the man who tells lies any differently.

If there is a group of people ...[text shortened]... ort such an association, and if they have a week of celebration for liars, I will not be part of it.
“I never said anything is an affront to God”

MB has a habit of trying to put words in your mouth, then going on to criticize what you DIDNT say.


@Mott-The-Hoople said
“I never said anything is an affront to God”

MB has a habit of trying to put words in your mouth, then going on to criticize what you DIDNT say.
Yes, its done for dramatic effect. To be truthful nobody I know hates gays and others who are different in this regard. Thats their personal private business and it is their business to keep it private, but they dont. Their sexuality is brought out into the open as if anyone cares to know about it. And worst of all they expect people to celebrate their perversions... its utter madness.


@Rajk999 said
Do you realise that they are in fact teaching about sexuality, homosexuality and other forms of perverted sexuality, to kids as young as 6, in some US schools?

Nobody is teaching people to discriminate against homosexuality in schools. If it is picked up then it is a society thing which you cannot change.
I've no idea what they're teaching in US schools. Kids of a certain age should be taught about the human reproductive system, otherwise I see no reason to 'teach' children about sexuality, any more than they need be taught about eye colour, (it's in the genes, you know) but I don't set the syllabus.

Personally I don't see what people object to about other peoples' sexuality, I mean what's the big deal? Is it a 'sin' against you? If not then it can only be a 'sin' against your personal set of learned beliefs, but so what? Not everyone believes as you believe, that's just the way the world is; people are as they are, and if it does no harm to anyone then there's no harm to it.


@Indonesia-Phil said
I've no idea what they're teaching in US schools. Kids of a certain age should be taught about the human reproductive system, otherwise I see no reason to 'teach' children about sexuality, any more than they need be taught about eye colour, (it's in the genes, you know) but I don't set the syllabus.

Personally I don't see what people object to about other peoples' ...[text shortened]... y the world is; people are as they are, and if it does no harm to anyone then there's no harm to it.
Well IP that’s a good point if only it were the case, then there would be no issues. We have men in women’s sports, restrooms, changing rooms, along with the same in school with minors. Not to mention all of the lgbtq things going on in schools being taught, child sex change procedures without parent knowledge. We had people getting canceled for not being woke and losing jobs, afraid to speak out about not agreeing with the woke liberal party, genders, trans and on and on.


@Indonesia-Phil said
I've no idea what they're teaching in US schools. Kids of a certain age should be taught about the human reproductive system, otherwise I see no reason to 'teach' children about sexuality, any more than they need be taught about eye colour, (it's in the genes, you know) but I don't set the syllabus.

Personally I don't see what people object to about other peoples' ...[text shortened]... y the world is; people are as they are, and if it does no harm to anyone then there's no harm to it.
"I've no idea what they're teaching in US schools."

STFU then...you are not qualified to comment


@mike69 said
Well IP that’s a good point if only it were the case, then there would be no issues. We have men in women’s sports, restrooms, changing rooms, along with the same in school with minors. Not to mention all of the lgbtq things going on in schools being taught, child sex change procedures without parent knowledge. We had people getting canceled for not being woke and losing ...[text shortened]... s, afraid to speak out about not agreeing with the woke liberal party, genders, trans and on and on.
We were specifically discussing homosexuality, the other points raised in your post are a different subject altogether. I'm personally not in favour of mixed changing rooms, changing a child's gender, and so on, I'm perhaps not as 'woke' as you think I am. My point was and remains that homosexuality is a genetically influenced trait, if men want to love other men then that's fine with me, best not to confuse that with other aspects of this highly complex subject.


@Mott-The-Hoople said
"I've no idea what they're teaching in US schools."

STFU then...you are not qualified to comment
That was my opening sentence, the rest of my post was expressing opinion which had nothing to do with schools. Calm down.


@Indonesia-Phil said
We were specifically discussing homosexuality, the other points raised in your post are a different subject altogether. I'm personally not in favour of mixed changing rooms, changing a child's gender, and so on, I'm perhaps not as 'woke' as you think I am. My point was and remains that homosexuality is a genetically influenced trait, if men want to love other men then that's fine with me, best not to confuse that with other aspects of this highly complex subject.
My post is about homosexuality, you said it’s ok as long as it doesn’t affect anyone else, I explained how it does. They got a little power and destroyed themselves in the process forcing it on everyone instead of enjoying their lives and being happy.


@Indonesia-Phil said
That was my opening sentence, the rest of my post was expressing opinion which had nothing to do with schools. Calm down.
You went on to defend homos stating as long as they don’t harm…(paraphrase) we’ll dumbass it was just explained to you how it harms children being taught in schools.


@mike69 said
My post is about homosexuality, you said it’s ok as long as it doesn’t affect anyone else, I explained how it does. They got a little power and destroyed themselves in the process forcing it on everyone instead of enjoying their lives and being happy.
Your post was not just about homosexuality though, was it. Why did you feel the need to introduce other unrelated subjects, such as men in women's sport? (Which I am also against, by the way )

I don't know what 'little power' you think they have; if you mean the power to avoid the bigoted, archaic and frankly ignorant attitudes which have often and still prevail against them, then all power to them. 'Destroyed themselves'?? What on Earth are you on about? I'm sure they'd be happy to enjoy their lives, if they were allowed so to do without being labelled 'freaks', or 'perverts' or all of the other nasty little descriptive terms that are used.

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