@Suzianne saidOK, tell us that they are not trying to press themselves on our society and create a society within our society. If I’m a member of a fraternity at the university of Illinois, with 100 members, all regular guys as you might imagine, what if three guys joined about the same time who are all like these people you’re talking about. Tell us what they might do, if they should do it, should the fraternity be changed to suit them. This is a very good post and you will tell me to stuff it.
They DO live their lives. And that offends you.
Oh , Mott asked how Tran can be possible on page2.
I suggest for you to be a very popular better like I am, you will answer every question to you.
@Suzianne saidThis post says nothing. It says ‘you ‘ 6 times.
You support Trump.
You don't know facts. In fact, to maintain your fantasy that you know what you're talking about, it is necessary for you to deny facts. And make up a few of your own.
Picture the debate judges, sitting at a table in front of you as you debate. I think one of them is playing chess on the Internet.
@Suzianne saidAs we are all brothers, we certainly understand that it is difficult for you to put the word intolerant in a sentence.
Trust me, they don't do that either.
They know that intolerant people like you are an existential danger to them.
They know better than you who they are. How dare you tell them different?
@vivify saidOkay, I'll have a crack at this....I can't make any distinction between the terms 'sex' and 'gender', a person may be transexual or transgender, it means the same thing.
I have questions regarding gender vs. sex and transgenderism.
Before I ask, consider my many years of posts as someone who leans left, is progressive and also supports the right of trans people to live their lives happily and treated with the same respect as anyone else.
That said: I just have questions and hope for an adult discussion.
1) [b]Gender vs. Sex. ...[text shortened]... oth or neither)? Wouldn't such people be identifying with made up roles?
Feedback appreciated.
There are a very few people who are born with both male and female genitalia, and these people are usually medically assisted to become one gender (sex) or the other, just as there are people who are 'born into the wrong body', who may also require medical/hormonal intervention, but these are rare cases. More common, of course, are homosexuality, or bisexuality, which are something genetic, and nobody 'choses' to be any of these things, it's in the sexual sense the 'essence' of them, any more than one 'chooses' to be heterosexual.
Where it becomes more 'complicated' is the current trend towards 'identifying' as the opposite of ones' biological self, in other words 'choosing' to be ones' opposite gender (sex) , where one might as well identify as a rabbit, or a piece of chocolate, and making a distinction between the genuine and the perceived in this regard is tricky, to say the least.
I suppose that which one should bear in mind is that despite our sophistication and 'intelligence', in the end we're just a species of ape, and continued existence of our species depends upon reproduction, which in turn depends upon attraction between and the sexual union between a man and a woman, and as long as there are enough of us doing that we should be okay,...
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@vivify saidI have little interest in this topic but I can answer your questions I guess.
I have questions regarding gender vs. sex and transgenderism.
Before I ask, consider my many years of posts as someone who leans left, is progressive and also supports the right of trans people to live their lives happily and treated with the same respect as anyone else.
That said: I just have questions and hope for an adult discussion.
1) [b]Gender vs. Sex. ...[text shortened]... oth or neither)? Wouldn't such people be identifying with made up roles?
Feedback appreciated.
Yes, one is biology is the other is cultural. However: that culture stems directly from one's biology, right?
Most people belong to one of two biological sexes - male and female. These two sexes are for the most part necessary to reproduce via "straight" vaginal sex.
The origin of biological gender is unclear. Much of it seems to be biological but does this mean genetic? Hormones can be ingested. The wiring in the brain can be changed via how people are treated. People can be forced into a gender role they do not feel is appropriate for them.
Yes, it does seem that two "classes" or "castes" or "lifestyles" do seem to arise in most societies which are associated with biological sex. However some people have their "wires crossed" and their brain is convinced it belongs to the other "lifestyle" than their body's anatomy might otherwise indicate. This is why they are called "trans" - their involuntary mental perception is "opposite" of what their body is normally associated with.
By necessity, women has to be home with children to nurse before the days of baby formula and refrigerators.
Of course that generality does hold for the most part but we don't say women who can't lactate are men. Grannies often help raise children. The people who you are curious about are a tiny minority of the population.
A major difference in how this phenomenon is perceived is whether you focus on the individual's autonomy and freedom vs the health and coordination of the community. The community norms come from typical biological-psychological sex-linked personality traits. Individuals are rarely typical however.
If there are more than 2 genders, what exactly does gender mean outside of sex? Simply put: how do you define gender without sex?
It's similar (though NOT the same) as whether a person is hetero or homosexual. The "male sexual role" is generally associated with penises but there are bull dykes. The "female sexual role" is generally associated with vaginas but there are also "receptive bottoms" in the homosexual community.
There could be a penis having homosexual man who takes the "male role" in relationships. There might be a vagina having straight man who also takes the "male role" in relationships. There could be a heterosexual penis having straight man who prefers to have sex with his wife while wearing a French maid outfit and getting pegged but he pays the bills and fixes plumbing etc "like a man".
Yes there are typical correlations between physical sex and various aspects of gender and sexuality but this conversation is focused on the few exceptions. Because they are exceptions you cannot expect them to fit the generalized patterns.
Also there are people who protest against being separated into two genders and call themselves nonbinary. Who are you to insist they have to fit into your two-gender system?
@AThousandYoung saidI guess in the end, this is the only point that really needs to be made.
Also there are people who protest against being separated into two genders and call themselves nonbinary. Who are you to insist they have to fit into your two-gender system?
@Mott-The-Hoople saidWhy do you never properly grasp human interactions?
“ Trust me, they don't do that either.”
They don’t have parades?
AJoe said, "They need to leave us alone. I don't ask them to live my life, they should live theirs. I never walk up to someone and say I am a man. Why do they do that?"
I said, "Trust me, they don't do that, either." In other words, AJoe is lying.
I'd say, hey, get a clue, but I seriously don't think you can.
@AverageJoe1 saidDo yourself a favor and go see a psychologist.
This post says nothing. It says ‘you ‘ 6 times.
Picture the debate judges, sitting at a table in front of you as you debate. I think one of them is playing chess on the Internet.
And then count how many times in a session they say "you".
Saying "you" is NOT "saying nothing". It is connection, something I know you have a problem with. You have no empathy with others, and you feel completely uncomfortable letting others in to talk about "you". But connection is what the entirety of human interaction is about. I'm still not sure what your problem is, but I admit I haven't given it much thought, either. What I do know is that trying to find connection with people like you is abhorrent to me. I mean, yes, I can intellectualize it, but that is incomplete without understanding the emotional side of it and it appears you have precious little ability to do that.
But then, that is merely the surface. A full evaluation of your personality I have no time for, neither do I have the stomach for it.
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@AverageJoe1 said"OK, tell us that they are not trying to press themselves on our society and create a society within our society. If I’m a member of a fraternity at the university of Illinois, with 100 members, all regular guys as you might imagine, what if three guys joined about the same time who are all like these people you’re talking about. Tell us what they might do, if they should do it, should the fraternity be changed to suit them.
OK, tell us that they are not trying to press themselves on our society and create a society within our society. If I’m a member of a fraternity at the university of Illinois, with 100 members, all regular guys as you might imagine, what if three guys joined about the same time who are all like these people you’re talking about. Tell us what they might do, if they should ...[text shortened]...
I suggest for you to be a very popular better like I am, you will answer every question to you.
This is ridiculous, and this doesn't happen. You have no patience, nor tolerance of those unlike yourself. That is all this is.
I assure you that there are gay guys in college fraternities and there are lesbians in college sororities.
You know nothing.
"Oh , Mott asked how Tran can be possible on page2.
I suggest for you to be a very popular better like I am, you will answer every question to you."
Neither of you are paying for my services. It's not my job to make sure you are properly educated on these matters. I would suggest that if you wish to debate these things in good faith, then you can at least first educate yourselves to the average level of the other members of this forum.
@AverageJoe1 saidThis is ridiculously untrue.
As we are all brothers, we certainly understand that it is difficult for you to put the word intolerant in a sentence.
@Suzianne saidNo, AJ is not lying. Queers and perverts are constantly throwing their perversions in the face of others.
Why do you never properly grasp human interactions?
AJoe said, "They need to leave us alone. I don't ask them to live my life, they should live theirs. I never walk up to someone and say I am a man. Why do they do that?"
I said, "Trust me, they don't do that, either." In other words, AJoe is lying.
I'd say, hey, get a clue, but I seriously don't think you can.
It is you that lies when you claim they don’t.
@Suzianne saidOf course there are gay people in fraternities. There is a gay man in my office, we go to lunch, I like him, have him over with groups. I swear. Cool? Last night, I swear, I was at a dinner party, a lesbian couple that I like very much were my dinner partners at a table of 8. nuff said.
[b]"OK, tell us that they are not trying to press themselves on our society and create a society within our society. If I’m a member of a fraternity at the university of Illinois, with 100 members, all regular guys as you might imagine, what if three guys joined about the same time who are all like these people you’re talking about. Tell us what they might do, if they should ...[text shortened]... n you can at least first educate yourselves to the average level of the other members of this forum.
But here is the hook, little feller, They are not Tran. They are gay. So, you need to write a better answer to my fraternity analogy. Ha, what if one says I am a girl, and 3 days later I see him at a bar and introduce him/her as Tammy. 'oh no, I am not Tammy tonite, I feel like I am Thomas.' Well, did my best.....but I aint doing no more.
@Mott-The-Hoople saidNote the artful dodger Suzianne quietly shifts the fraternity analogy,.....................
No, AJ is not lying. Queers and perverts are constantly throwing their perversions in the face of others.
It is you that lies when you claim they don’t.
Gays, Lesbians!??!?!? nononno....tranee is the subject, is it not. Will she respond?
@Suzianne saidPsychologists are talking and advising to 'you'. They are studying 'you'. Why, WE are studying Trump and George Floyd. You are really trying the patience of Debate Judges!!!
Do yourself a favor and go see a psychologist.
And then count how many times in a session they say "you".
Saying "you" is NOT "saying nothing". It is connection, something I know you have a problem with. You have no empathy with others, and you feel completely uncomfortable letting others in to talk about "you". But connection is what the entirety of human interacti ...[text shortened]... ce. A full evaluation of your personality I have no time for, neither do I have the stomach for it.
And, if I may say, you are not a psychologist on the Forum. Keep that in your psychology practice, please.